From Self-Doubt to Self-Confidence: Navigating Your Early Career Challenges

Kelsey Arico: [: 00:00:00

So I think that's one is don't wait for permission, right? Like shape that leadership story that you want and. Know that the commitment you demonstrate will be recognized. You don't need that title. Like we said, that authority to lead it is going to be what you make of it or even take of it.

he Excel group, and what she [: 00:01:00

And often those deliverables hinge on your ability to successfully motivate and navigate a group of other people who don't report to you in executing the task. So when confronted with that, how do you navigate that? You're early in your career, you barely know what's going on, you might be in an environment where you're told not to ask a whole lot of questions, but you're still accountable for the results.

Today's story is going to be about how you navigate those situations and come out the other end where you have a stronger sense of who you are and how you lead and how to lead. Kelsey is gonna be the one who is guiding us through that conversation. I.

and she brings authenticity, [: 00:02:00

Beyond her client work, Kelsey plays a key role in shaping Acela group's brand and marketing strategy. She brings an eye for design and storytelling to elevate the firm's presence. While she's passionate about helping organizations grow, her most important role is at home as a wife and mom to two tiny humans.

She and her family live in Virginia where their dog bell keeps everyone on their toes, and the kids ensure life is never dull with their endless curiosity and. Energy,

Kelsey, glad to have you on the show. Welcome aboard.

Kelsey Arico: Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jim: I'm looking forward to this conversation and I think it's gonna be a lot of fun because who doesn't like hearing about how other people screwed up? With that being said, tell us how you screwed stuff up.

nk that the number one thing [: 00:03:00

That people would just respect that and act, in line with that and not question it and would have your back. And that's just not the case. And I think early on I believed that being, a strong performer or if you're someone who always worked hard, that would automagically give you respect and credibility in a space and.

I didn't really realize that it took a long time in some regards to build that. And that there was definitely an element of self-advocacy required in that.

Dr. Jim: That makes sense. It's a little bit generic. So give us some more of the hot piping tea behind that story. What are the details behind that conversation?

r not even as a true, matrix [: 00:04:00

Everyone knows it. Here's how you set it up. You have work streams that will report into you to get this done. And, you can set up all of the right architecture for that. You can set the tone, you can bring everyone together, do all of the things we say are going to, build, buy-in and help people come along with you.

And if they don't see you as the leader for that. They're not going to necessarily take accountability to deliver on what you're asking or in the way that you're hoping to do it, because it just feels like a lower priority item for them, and that's what exactly what happened for me.

Dr. Jim: So it sounds like you're describing a situation where you have accountability with no authority. Am I reading that right?

irst five, seven years of my [: 00:05:00

And so that's, the dance isn't gonna work out.

Dr. Jim: So you're describing a scenario over the first handful of years in your career, as you're going through that experience, what's going through your mind?

Kelsey Arico: at first I was just maybe wondering what I had done wrong. Was I not clear and what I, shared was the request or the expectations of their timing, or did I not tell the right people because maybe I didn't know I. The right stakeholders. And I think that in an, in any organization, I think most organizations you know, there's like competing priorities and things and stuff gets shuffled.

not even that it had gotten [: 00:06:00

To them and you're feeling stuck as a newer, and I think for me, there was a lot of negative self-talk in this, like younger kind of, telling yourself like, oh, you're you're not experienced, or, mapping those self-talk criteria onto yourself instead of just going to them and saying, Hey, this is what's expected.

I definitely, part two of that mistake was just I wasn't assertive in a way that I think. Good leadership can require, if it's not aligned to, my, it's not my style, me, it's not my style to be that way. I can be direct, I can feel passionate about things, but if I think it's gonna disrupt a relationship, I'm not gonna probably push the envelope at first.

And I think that assertiveness is something really, that's a balancing act is something that a growth edge for new leaders.

elf-talk about the scenario, [: 00:07:00

Kelsey Arico: It felt very high stakes to me. I felt like I had a lot to prove. A lot was, living in this request that had come to me through, at the time the person I reported into it was something that they had historically managed before my time. And yeah, you're like, okay, I have to get this done.

the other folks that were in [: 00:08:00

And illuminate that show that they're doing exactly what we needed and how they did it and tried to give them like an easy button for it. But there was definitely still resistance and I. I think that the pressure, again, I hadn't really gone through that, what felt like conflict at the time.

And when you're new in an organization or new in a role, you're wondering, am I allowed to do this? Do I have permission or what kind of permission do I have without authority to go to somebody or go to their manager? How do I escalate? And. It definitely felt harder to step up, so I stepped two, moved into reaching out to mentors that I had developed to gain some insight.

Like coaching?

ter going through that, what [: 00:09:00

Kelsey Arico: Yeah. I think for me, number one was that in those examples, or in any example where we're talking about leading without authority, you have to claim your leadership because if you don't. Then someone will set that expectation for you. So I think there is a tone, a position that you have to take sometimes more directly than you maybe prefer or do on default to really claim that leadership.

And I do think that. As you mentioned, seeking that internal help to figure out the landscape or the politics help people, get that tea that you mentioned around the unspoken rules, and who you might could go to ideas to try. I do think that your confidence grows, like we mentioned my self-talk.

I was letting that. Take over. That was running the show and I was getting in my own way. But after talking to folks, it's interesting how much your confidence can grow a little bit when you have that plan in place.

[: 00:10:00

But I was really seeking that internal, not validation, but like true, someone to map it out for me and help me know what good looks like there. And yeah, I think before, or you can expect that these things are gonna happen in your career. And even I feel like now as someone who's been, a lot more experienced, I can have those, self-talk can creep in.

And so I think I now already have established who I can go to for that. Who, those who's in my front row basically, or who's in your corner. And it's amazing what that can do to give you a boost.

Dr. Jim: there's one other aspect of what you talked about that, that I want to dig into, and that was your comment that normally when you had experienced this in the past, you would just do it yourself. And it connected with me because I'm generally like I'm very confrontational.

I have no [: 00:11:00

Kelsey Arico: Part of it was in that example. I couldn't have done it myself the way that this initiative was so large. It wouldn't have been practical, it wouldn't have been impo. It just would've been impossible. And part of what I knew would bring so much value to the event if done right. And it's the reason why we archite, set up the architecture to be that way, was to have all of these different inputs and perspectives and creators as involved so that it would end up being the best it can be.

ust do it and I won't be con [: 00:12:00

Obviously burnout being one. Just creating a cycle for habit. I feel like as a new leader or new in the organization, if I didn't claim that leadership and then I just kept doing it for people that was going to set something up, that would've potentially become a, a repeat.

And that's not what I would've wanted either.

Dr. Jim: so when you experience that stuff, authority without, or influence without authority, and accountability without authority, I. If you experience that early on, it starts to map out some potential pathways from a career perspective. You have two pathways that could potentially be in front of you. What did it teach you about whether you're better suited for being a technical leader versus a people leader? I.

that was presented to me in [: 00:13:00

And I think that we've gotten into, it's a, I dunno if it's a stereotype or if it's just a false narrative. And it probably depends on the person, their experience, the organizations they work in to say. There are plenty of ways we lead every day, even if you don't have a direct report. And there are definitely, to your point, positions that I've had that required that.

So when you think about, EPMO level, project management structures change management structures, consulting, you are essentially doing just that leading without. Authority unless you've claimed it or someone has asserted it to you indirectly or without even title. And I do think there is of course always a level of credibility that comes from performance and we'll never that, that just will be what it is, right?

I do think there are always [: 00:14:00

Why won't people use this process? And it's just because they're being told to do it right. And that's again, not by their manager or anything like that. But I do think there is this description that we need to unpack around what does leadership look like. And it doesn't necessarily mean you have to have matrix direct reports.

Dr. Jim: That's a really good scenario that you're describing, and you went through this early on in your career. Now when you look back on it. What were the two major things that you learned from that experience having gone through it?

ecially for folks that might [: 00:15:00

So I think that's one is don't wait for permission, right? Like shape that leadership story that you want and. Know that the commitment you demonstrate will be recognized. You don't need that title. Like we said, that authority to lead it is going to be what you make of it or even take of it.

As hard as it is to say that.

Dr. Jim: I get what you're. You're saying, shape the leadership that you want. Don't wait for permission. that sounds great, but it's it's kind of cliche, so make it real. What does that look like in action?

Kelsey Arico: Yeah, I think it's being direct and assertive of what your needs are and. Not letting, Hey, I'm an expert of non get in your way. So pushing past that, you have to limit the noise the self-talk, right? Quiet the noise as I think is a common phrase for that. I think that you can quiet it. I don't think it's ever gonna go away.

you have to have strategies [: 00:16:00

But I do think that you have to limit the, quite the noise and not let the self-talk be a barrier for you because, and the only person that's in your way is yourself.

Dr. Jim: So when you talk about quieting the noise, what are some tips or tricks or exercises or disciplines that you built to mitigate the amount of internal chatter that's going on that gets in the way of you actually executing?

Kelsey Arico: For me I saw this practice one called Glimmers, which is a funny little word to say, but basically it's about when you're someone who. Maybe it's a little hard on yourself. Maybe you're a people pleaser. Maybe you always wanna do the best job possible. I think that we don't give ourselves a lot of grace, so glimmers is to help disrupt that.

s the dark side, then you're [: 00:17:00

Dr. Jim: there was another element of what you mentioned, which is don't wait for permission. And I agree with that. Make. Make things happen as as part of my DNA bias for action as part of my DNA. So that makes sense. Here's the problem. When you're early on in your career, you wanna make things happen, but you have no idea how a lot of stuff works. So how did you build out enough of a worldview so that you're being you're being precise about the action that you take?

arity, I think that having a [: 00:18:00

I was told early on to not be afraid to just dive in, even if you get it wrong. Make a skeleton. We can always break it. And so I think that those type of mental models, you're like, I can do this and I'm gonna set up some check-ins with people that I know already know all of those things that are still mysterious to me so they can fill in the gaps.

And not letting that feel like it's a sign of weakness. Because I do think that, when you're trying to prove yourself, like you said, when you're someone who is. A quote unquote self-starter, driven to action bias for that. You don't necessarily need a lot of that, but there are times where, like you said, you're just, you don't know.

You don't know what you don't know, and so you actually do need to share that and be a little vulnerable with the people that do to say, here's where I am fuzzy. Here's where I need clarity.

en't signs of weakness. What [: 00:19:00

So what was it that actually got you to the point where where you actually shifted that mindset?

Kelsey Arico: I, I got some feedback actually. I always really care about whatever I'm doing, being exactly what whoever asked me to do it is hoping for, right? And so through that you can imagine it's a lot of questions that I ask, and I just do that because I am curious, like deeply curious to understand all of the inner workings of something or so that it can be, the best possible outcome aligned to somebody's desires.

ortunate that somebody said, [: 00:20:00

What that did though for me is signal A, that you don't feel confident in what you're doing, or B, I got feedback on the other side from someone else saying It doesn't feel like you trust me to do this because you're asking me so many questions about it. And so I think that was a turning point for me to say.

Like how do you ask good questions? How do you put some rigor around what are the most important questions that I need answers to today? It's not 50. What are the top three? To make it really practical. And so it actually took like planning and practice around that before I was having this conversations for me to just dot down like, what are those mission critical three things I need to know.

I like the number three. It could be more than that, but yeah, just trying to figure out. How that was something in my style that I didn't wanna lose, but it needed to be tailored so that the impact was clear to the recipient of my questions around like my intention.

Dr. Jim: So it's [: 00:21:00

Really stupid way to lead. But at the time it made sense. What it taught me was don't ask for help. Try to figure things out yourself. And then when you've learned some stuff, you can go back and ask clarifying questions. You look at your experience where you're talking about. I come armed with the most important questions.

le should have in their back [: 00:22:00

Kelsey Arico: based on the types of roles I've had and the work I do today, I think, really asking questions to understand what their. What their ultimate goal is, or what does good look like for you? Because I could listen to you describe something to me, Jim, and you feel like it's crystal clear, it's in your head, it's perfect.

Kelsey is gonna be able to execute on this and I might have drawn up something completely different right in my mental model. And you wouldn't know that unless we unpack it or when I do that first draft that you mentioned, I used to go to your leaders equipped with already to unpack. And so I think, honestly, I think there's benefits.

So the way you described, although I agree, I don't think anyone wants a leader where they feel like they can't go to them for questions. So I'm glad you raised and shared that. But I think that it just depends sometimes on the time you have to, and so I think that the questions you ask upfront or in your process, which are later, unpacking that first draft.

It might be dependent [: 00:23:00

I do think there's like a both end sometimes with that. Because we do want people to feel creative. We want them to feel like they have autonomy over it, but we also might not need to reinvent the wheel completely.

Dr. Jim: So you've mapped out all of this stuff that you've gone through so far. You talked about early on how you were figuring out how to influence without authority and what that taught you. You shared like some of the key ways, key things that you learned from it. you take all of that together and you look at your career trajectory, what are some of the ways that this really helped you hit fast forward on how you were able to accelerate through your subsequent roles?

rception of conflict or that [: 00:24:00

It was a muscle that I didn't have to think so hard about or use so much energy to expend. And I would notice that as I looked around the room, there weren't people that seemed like they were questioning me. Everyone just had what they needed. They treated me, with that kind of credibility that I had always hoped for or expected early on.

And I think that it's because I showed up. And having claimed that like I showed up in that presence and I, we always hear people say, leaders set the tone, but I think that there's a personal presence that you bring to that can be aligned to your personal style. So I don't have to be like, I'm in charge.

icate, what you demonstrate, [: 00:25:00

And so I think it gave me comfortability in knowing that wasn't gonna be damaging to any relationship I hope it to have with people by being the leader of something.

Dr. Jim: So when you think. Think through all of this, and now advising somebody that's 10 to 15 years earlier in their career and you want them to be able to take some calculated risks and be a little bit more aggressive. What's the advice that you would give them having gone through what you go you went through and come out the other side?

eadership. I want them to be [: 00:26:00

And so I think there's like a line in the sand and we sometimes have a mental model that almost in every, you know, emotional intelligence coaching session I have, we unpack those two things because everyone's fear is being seen as aggressive. And that story can make you feel like you're not people focused.

So what I would encourage somebody. About that is, hey, you can ask for what you need. You can ask strong questions and share your intention with people. So you know, if they're struggling to feel like they're they're me in that first scenario where they've been tasked to do something and nobody is coming to the table with what they've asked then.

Push harder. Don't be afraid to say, Hey, this is something I needed from you. How can we work differently next time because there was a deadline associated with this. I think about that so much in communications work that I've been a part of where I'm hustling people. Jim, I needed this yesterday.

Jim, this [: 00:27:00

Here's what I need. Here's when I need it. Here's why I need it then. And not worry that's gonna disrupt the way you work with people.

Dr. Jim: I like how you framed it, but one of the things that I reacting to as you're talking about being clear on expectations and deliverables and what everybody is accountable for. I hate babysitting to that degree. And it often, it comes across as babysitting. how do you get over, the need for that level of follow up people you have no authority over I would imagine that would be a hurdle that people have to cross over.

hink when possible, like the [: 00:28:00

So for a big event, right? You needed, we needed certain design elements that they all had to contribute, they needed to order certain things, they needed to submit certain things, right? All of that's laid out at the start. And so then it, to me, that doesn't really feel like babysitting. If it's very clear from the start right here, Jim, here's everything I need.

Here's your roadmap. I think the babysitting, which I wouldn't hope is needed, but it does come up with what we were talking about where people aren't giving you what you need because maybe they don't think it's important. Maybe if they don't know it's a priority for them, maybe they don't think you're important.

on directly versus trying to [: 00:29:00

So I don't want, my manager talking to Jim's manager that I feel like that does not build any relationship, credibility, or trust. And so I think that's like a last case resort, right? Like setting everything up, up front so that it's clear. And then if you don't get something, I think there's a fair window for me to say at the beginning, Hey, if I don't have this by this date, I'm gonna check in with you because we need it to be able to submit the order, for example.

Dr. Jim: If folks wanna continue the conversation with you, Kelsey, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Kelsey Arico: I would say LinkedIn is great. I do, LinkedIn, you can find me on LinkedIn. Kelsey Rico, or email kelsey@theexcelgroup.com would be perfect.

t that point where you don't [: 00:30:00