Surviving Career Pivots: Lessons from Feeling Misaligned

Becky Chung: [: 00:00:00

It's important to honor that part, but not over index on it. Balance that out. And that's something that I really work to coach others and myself, like even in my own self-awareness to say, okay, you are there. I'm gonna honor the good parts of what you're bringing, and I'm gonna be really conscious of the bad parts you might be driving.

Alexa Beavers: What was the moment you realized you made a massive mistake for Becky Chung? Our guest today, it was this, she had just started a new job, a job that she thought she was perfect for, and then two weeks in she realized. Not the best fit. She realized that instead of pursuing that great role, she was actually running away from her old one.

So how do you recover from a [: 00:01:00

Becky is a seasoned organizational and talent development leader. She's currently serving as vice president of development at Cielo Talent. Her passion lies in aligning business objectives with employee growth to foster both organizational success and individual fulfillment.

With a strong background in organizational development, Becky has been instrumental in implementing strategies that enhance workplace culture and performance, and I really enjoyed the conversation with her because you're gonna feel it too. You're gonna feel her commitment to creating those environments where both businesses and employees thrive.

That's what underscores her dedication to the field and what really makes her a special leader. Welcome, Becky.

Becky Chung: Thanks, Alexa. I'm so happy to be here.

eally have enjoyed unpacking [: 00:02:00

Becky Chung: Sounds good.

Alexa Beavers: Okay. So this show is all about dishing it, which is a little bit unusual. So would you mind dishing it for our audience?

What was that moment where you realized, Ugh, I've made a mistake? Tell us in your own words.

Becky Chung: Yeah, I had been working for an organization I loved that went through an acquisition and in that process recognized it wasn't the place for me. And so as I started to pursue opportunities, I took a role. That I had some reservations about in the beginning, some red flags, but decided to take the opportunity and quickly into that experience recognized.

r me, and how I coach people [: 00:03:00

Alexa Beavers: Oh, that's such an interesting kind of package you've just laid out for us. And one of the things I wanted to chat about was you said you realized it just wasn't the right fit. You had something going on. So what were the indicators? How did you feel that in your bones?

Becky Chung: Yeah, it was quickly realizing the culture was one that wasn't for me, and the fact that it was very competitive. And there's nothing wrong with a competitive environment. I like healthy conflict. I like competing together, but I don't love when I see that unhealthy conflict really competing against your peers.

To me, that really builds. Lack of trust and some unhealthy behaviors. And that's what I quickly witnessed and was the desired leadership style at the time. So that was a recognition for me of as I was trying to coach my leader, my boss, about what behaviors I was seeing, how I thought he was leading things in an unhealthy way.

hanging and felt like it was [: 00:04:00

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, it's hard to be collaborative in a very competitive culture, and that's what I am hearing from you. The other thing I heard you say is you like, were running away from that acquisition stress and then you are running towards something you thought would be better. So what was it you were trying to escape?

Becky Chung: the new organization was taking the business in a very different direction than when it had been. It was one that was focused on helping an underserved population really focused on inclusion and those types of kind of core values. And the new organization just had a different focus. It was more on profitability.

trying to make sure that my [: 00:05:00

Alexa Beavers: Yeah. It sounds to me a little bit like as your organization shifted gears, what you had signed up for wasn't aligned to your values anymore. Yeah. And then that topped with being a new mom when values become, even

Becky Chung: Even more important, yes.

Alexa Beavers: about you anymore, right? Oh my gosh. I can see how that could create a perfect, like storm.

So a couple things led up to your choice, the acquisition, being a new mom. In hindsight, what do you think made you feel compelled to take the leap? So maybe prematurely.

in the role being important [: 00:06:00

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, maybe you were like overindexing on

Becky Chung: yes, absolutely.

Alexa Beavers: I don't think security is a bad thing at all, but

Becky Chung: I just made it too much.

Alexa Beavers: right back on too much and some of the. I don't know all the situational elements that led to your choice. What are some of the things that helped you to realize that, you'd made this mistake and you saw some of the writing on the wall, but what are some of the things that you learned to help yourself to not make that mistake again?

nt to me and it was creating [: 00:07:00

So how do I. Not only recognize that's what's going on, but then counterbalance that and know that might mean I overlook things that are also really important to me. And so I really try to think about that when I'm in situations now, if I feel my ego is getting in my way, if I feel my. Aspirations are driving me too much, and maybe I need to think more about how I wanna show up what my core values are.

How do I just really recognize what's sitting passenger in my car? It's a mental image and make sure that I still honor who that part of myself, but don't let it control me.

Alexa Beavers: I really love this. And I'm almost envisioning okay, so I am currently. I'm teaching my 16-year-old to drive and I'm often in the passenger seat and I'm over there do this, do that, and I can be very overwhelming to him, which is just like your security passenger was probably really shouting at you.

Yeah. How do you make it shut up? I know my son would really appreciate that info if you could give it to us.

Becky Chung: [: 00:08:00

Alexa Beavers: So I am not useless as this mom

Becky Chung: You are not

Alexa Beavers: in your security was not useless

Becky Chung: It was not, it was important. It was making me motivated to look what I shouldn't have let it do is make me motivated to select. And I think that's a really important distinction there. So in the case of like you're learning to drive a car, you are there playing the role of safety and experience.

It's important to honor that part, but not over index on it. Balance that out. And that's something that I really work to coach others and myself, like even in my own self-awareness to say, okay, you are there. I'm gonna honor the good parts of what you're bringing, and I'm gonna be really conscious of the bad parts you might be driving.

Alexa Beavers: That's so good. Let's just assume you tried to push security out of the car. What happens then? Why do you keep it around,

y on trying to get something [: 00:09:00

So I do have security while I'm going through this acquisition, while this organization is changing. At the same time, I didn't have to rush.

I had time. I could slow down and make decisions. It didn't have to make me move faster than I did.

Alexa Beavers: You said slow down. How have you figured out how to just slow down?

Becky Chung: Yeah, I think there's sometimes when people say things like, slow down, we feel like it's all of these minutes and all of this time you need to dedicate. But it's really, I just try to take a meaningful moment, like breathe. I. Think through it, pause, make space to reflect. It doesn't have to be a lot of time, but to really push myself to say, what's causing me to make these decisions?

t's causing me to have these [: 00:10:00

Alexa Beavers: Yeah,

Becky Chung: It's really that second that helps you stop those thoughts and challenge yourself.

Alexa Beavers: I hear you saying, not only do you just slow down, but you also investigate a little bit. You had some really good questions that you were asking yourself, like, why are you here? I don't know. You had some better ones. Tell me, what are the kinds of questions that after you just take a beat what are the investigative kind of questions you ask yourself?

Becky Chung: It is really about seeing, what am I trying to achieve? What's the outcome I want? So if I can get myself focused on what's the outcome I want a, I wanted a role that had security to it, that I felt like was aligned with my values. That was an environment I would thrive in. There are people who thrive in really competitive environments like that.

I'm just not one of them. Had, I think I asked myself more of those secondary questions about not just security, but is this a place I'm going to thrive? I think I would've made decisions differently

sometimes we can get blinded [: 00:11:00

So a big lesson is, I'm picking up is slow down and truly investigate.

Becky Chung: Ask yourself a couple questions.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah. What are some other, did you learn any other lessons along the way

Becky Chung: I did, and one of those was being really clear about what is my value center. It's really about framing up in my mind, what do I want my day to look like? What do I want my life to look like and how does my job fit in that? For me at the time, having to reprioritize profession and personal was a big transition.

mall child. These things are [: 00:12:00

Those are some of the things I really try to focus on is what does my life need to look like at this moment and what are the things that need to be really center to that? And then what's some of the noise that goes around it? Where are my nice, like my nice to haves? What are my deal breakers?

What are my absolute must haves?

Alexa Beavers: That's awesome. And I think that, coming to terms with okay values, but expressed through your days is interesting, right? So we might say, oh, I really believe in, I don't know, independence for example. But how is that expressed through your days? I think, can you gimme an example of something that's really important to you and how it shows through in your career these days?

rward challenging ideas, new [: 00:13:00

Those are things that like I need to see in, my every day, maybe not every single day, but I need to know that I'm gonna experience that regularly and that's what's gonna help me thrive and be successful.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, so how do you cultivate that? I imagine that if I was like a fly on the wall watching you and your team together, I would not hear anyone say because I said so or hear. I'm watching you. I just love to see how teams operate.

Becky Chung: I really try to lead my team through example. So it, part of that is in how I show up and how I ask them to interact with me. But also how I hire and build the team. So when I'm bringing people onto my team, I'm asking them questions about what are your must haves? What's gonna get you excited and get you to come to work?

don't like a particular task [: 00:14:00

If you aren't a super detailed project focused type person and that's what the work is, then probably this isn't the right job and let's be okay with that.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, when you come across that, how have you have you ever had your heart set on a candidate and you're like, oh, they're gonna be perfect, and then you're halfway through the interview and you find that there's some sort of values misalignment. How do you overcome it? I don't take you as somebody that's just okay, we're done here.

So just curious. How that looks.

Becky Chung: having a really honest conversation and asking them to think about it. So there have been times where I've led teams where it might be a more high conflict role and saying, this is the type of work, these are the types of conversations you're having. These are the people you're gonna have to challenge.

're ready to do that kind of [: 00:15:00

Alexa Beavers: What a gift it would've been if you were the interviewer, viewer of yourself when you were applying for that job. What question would have allowed you to fast forward your realization that it wasn't the right job at the right time for you?

Becky Chung: I think had I asked more questions about how the team collaborated to achieve outcomes, I would've absolutely known it wasn't the team for me.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, and that's a big ask I think of the interviewee. So what I love about how you're doing things based on these lessons you've learned is you bring it to the table. I'm gonna be upfront with you. I'm gonna share these things and give them the opportunity to, be big boys and girls and pull up their pants and say, I'm in or I'm out.

I love that.

orward because we are having [: 00:16:00

Alexa Beavers: I mean it multiplier,

Becky Chung: it really helps set a great tone and building that relationship so that they hit the ground running instantly.

Alexa Beavers: when you bring on somebody, you've been through the interview process and I love the idea of, okay, this creates, it sets the tone for openness and honesty and what. Is the fast forward for onboarding?

What are the things that are accelerated? Because you've set that tone from the very start.

Becky Chung: It is reinforcing that tone. Then when they do join, to say it wasn't just an interview, right? Everyone's trying to sell a company, sell the job, sell themselves. So it's really reinforcing that of this is how this is gonna show up in your day. are the types of conversations we're gonna have. Here's what I'm asking from you as far as your openness and your trust, and then continuing to recognize that and where I'm seeing the types of behaviors I want.

Acknowledging, [: 00:17:00

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, early and often it sounds so you're not standing by hire and set it and forget it. You're saying you might notice this when we're doing this. So that is really powerful. I think that you're setting the tone, but you're also living it. And when you do those things, I know you said you really value collaboration.

Is there a value that how you're leading. Ties back to, I think it's a seed of collaboration, but is there something else that really seems to be driving it?

Becky Chung: It's really about letting people bring them best, their best self to work. One of the things I really focus on is making sure hires are value add to the team. And so I'm not looking to hire all of the same type of individual.

g sure we have honesty about [: 00:18:00

So we're really driving our energy into the things we are great at that give us energy that excite us. And then when there are those things that maybe are less natural leaning on your friend, your peer, your teammate, and saying, Hey, can you help me do this better and faster?

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, interdependent teams are really the ones that are the most effective. So it sounds like that's great. I had this situation where, I talked about the strengths and using people's strengths, and somebody challenged me and they said not every job that you do is gonna allow you to use all your strengths, and you aren't always gonna have somebody that you can, phone a friend.

How do you handle it when maybe there's an aspect of even your job or someone else's that it's, you're not leaning into your strengths, but it's just a non-negotiable. It's gotta be done.

Becky Chung: I think making sure those don't challenge my non-negotiables is the first step. And then sometimes you do just have to dig in. It's why you get paid to be there.

Alexa Beavers: [: 00:19:00

Becky Chung: Yep. You just deal with it and you can't have perfection. And if you do get that, then hold on for dear life because it's a pretty rare experience that you get that perfect role.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, I haven't found it. I love my job, but I haven't found it yet. So tell me a little bit about, as you have taken this into this role and you're in creator mode and really helping not only to create the infrastructure for talent development, but you're actually developing actual talent, some, how do you apply this these principles,

nts to it. So a lot of times [: 00:20:00

Let's get it to a point that it doesn't detract from your success, but then let's figure out how we use what you are really great at to overcome that. There's a much higher return on energy that way because it is so hard to train yourself to become completely natural and to make a weakness of strength.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah. I think you get exhausted maybe.

Becky Chung: absolutely.

Alexa Beavers: I get like a bad grade or back in the day, I would always focus right in on that bad grade. How do you keep yourself from seeing like that screaming at you? I guess it's almost like a passenger in your car again. I.

se sight of what things I am [: 00:21:00

'cause I do have gaps and I do want to improve and grow. So how do I make sure those things aren't, those insecurities aren't also getting in my way?

Alexa Beavers: It's so hard sometimes though, because if always wanna be a high achiever, you're. You're looking for those a's, or what have you, that reinforcement, and then you have the tougher ones that sit in that seat sometimes. One of the things I'm struck by is your focus on, I. Treating people like adults and giving 'em the upfront scoop so that they can make a choice for themselves. And I think that would've served you through your mistake if somebody had been upfront with you. You could have made the choice for yourself even with securities riding loud in your passenger seat.

So what are some tips you could give to leaders that maybe don't fancy themselves, like the best talent developers to deploy some of these things?

n I say invest, I don't mean [: 00:22:00

It can really help a leader who's less familiar with how to structure that conversation.

Alexa Beavers: That's an interesting concept. I think, all the talk of AI goes in so many directions, but I love the idea of using it to shorten your kind of learning curve a little bit.

Becky Chung: Absolutely let it be a tool to help you. If you aren't sure how to phrase a conversation, you know the messaging you want to say, how the person might react or feel, you can put that into AI these days and it'll give you some great advice on how to approach a conversation.

Alexa Beavers: Oh, that's amazing. Gimme a prompt

uld I phrase this? What kind [: 00:23:00

What expectations should I set?

Alexa Beavers: Oh, that's so cool. I bet it could work when you're getting ready to do an interview. So you know what kinds of questions.

Becky Chung: Absolutely.

Alexa Beavers: to uncover what's important to you. I love that. Awesome. So when you come across leaders that are, struggling with, that AI is one tip that you use, other tips you might have to help them to not let some of their own insecurities get in the way of being a good manager.

Becky Chung: Yeah, take a pause and think about what you're really trying to achieve in the conversation. And know that people want to be successful. And so if you approach those conversations with compassion, with some candor for your team, they're really going to respond well to that. Especially if you're doing it when.

You're echoing your desire for them to achieve. We all know as leaders that the better our team performs, the better we get to perform. And so by investing in them, you really are helping yourself.

esting. It's like a virtuous [: 00:24:00

Becky Chung: I can't think of anything. It was just great to catch up with you on this again and talk about how we help talent just find that best thriving environment and succeed.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, I can tell you really like what you do

Becky Chung: I do really love what I do.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah. And I feel like the mistakes that we make, they can be such great teachers and I know, I don't make anyone, come on, I don't make anyone do anything, but come on this show and do this without taking my own medicine first.

So when Jim said, Hey, what was your big mistake to me when he interviewed me? I know it feels a little bit like maybe it didn't for you, but I was like, oh my goodness. So I appreciate and celebrate you for being like, Hey, this happened. It really will help other people.

Becky Chung: And it's going to continue to shape who I am and be a really valuable experience.

can they say, oh, I need to [: 00:25:00

Becky Chung: Best way to reach me is on LinkedIn so I can be found at Becky Chung and then also via email, so Becky dot chung@cietalent.com.

Alexa Beavers: Awesome. Thank you so much, Becky. It's been such a pleasure to spend time with you. I think we could spend many more hours just, talking and thinking about how we can help people be their best selves, including me, because sometimes I need to work on myself. I think that some of the things that stood out to me were, you used the word vulnerability a couple times, and I think that is a pretty.

Tall ask to make of people in a play in an organization that may be competitive or where fear may be ruling the roost. And I think that it brings so many treasures. You did give us some kind of good tips for being vulnerable and. Also not being ruled by your insecurities, which I think is vulnerability.

And one of the things that I really love is that you didn't try to kick that insecurity out of the car.

Becky Chung: [: 00:26:00

I just need it to not be the only message.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, what's the lesson in here? And I just think that's something that so many. Of us do is we just wanna resist, go away. I don't wanna hear you hush your mouth, whatever, insecurity, and then it just screams louder, and you work harder. So I think that is such a powerful tool is to say, Hey, what are you doing here?

What are you trying to teach me? else is here to tell me something? Maybe something besides insecurity. So that is like the lesson of the day for me, that along with your authenticity and really focusing on being outcomes and values aligned as you, make your way through the world, whether it's in your job or in your mothering or family life, all of those things.

g: The reality is leadership [: 00:27:00

So if you can just give yourself that grace of, I don't need to reach some finish line, there is no finish line, and that this is gonna be a constant journey and I'm going to make mistakes, I'm going to learn, I'm going to succeed, and all of those are really what adds to it.

Alexa Beavers: Okay, so back to the car analogy. On a road trip when I was a kid, I would always be like, are we there yet? Are we there yet? And my mom would always say Five more minutes. But in this case, your lifelong learning is, what's the answer? I.

Becky Chung: You are never going to get there, take in the sight like it's fun and just enjoy it while you have it because there's so much to gain in those moments.

njoyed having you here and I [: 00:28:00