Unlocking Organizational Change Through Questions

Kandi Gongora: [: 00:00:00

Go back to Koch. That's how they work here. We just sell cars. Here's what we do. Right. Some of the managers, or mostly the managers who really didn't understand, I think the bigger picture. And so I had to overcome that. And I did I still have great friends there and we still talk and we still share coaching opportunities with each other professionally.

So I did. Really build relationships there though li like lifelong friendships, but there was a huge hill to overcome and they, I really didn't understand the industry and that's why I'd started doing the training on the side myself so that I could relate to them. 'cause they were right. I didn't know what they were doing.

partnerships and then I ran [: 00:01:00

Dr. Jim 2.0: new role, new industry, new function, and completely different domain. You know that there is a high priority goal that's set in front of you. You're ready to go. You have a chip on your shoulder, and you know that the people who hired you just took a shot on you when you weren't necessarily ideal for that role because you don't have the industry experience.

s take your ball and go home [: 00:02:00

To her springboarding, her career and hitting fast forward. So what's Candy's story? Candy is the chief transformation and people officer at Good Way Group where she's led award-winning culture initiatives and scaled operations to support double digit growth all within a fully remote workforce.

She has over a decade of experience transforming organizations by aligning strategy systems and talent and under her leadership Good Way Group has earned recognition as a best place to work. Has improved employee engagement scores year over year and has successfully executed complex change initiatives across global teams.

She's also a breast cancer survivor, dog lover, and passionate advocate for making business more human, and this is her story. Kandy, welcome to the show.

Kandi Gongora: Great to be here with you.

, you're A-C-H-R-O, when you [: 00:03:00

Kandi Gongora: Yes. And to be clear, I've had a few of those moments, but this was a big moment with a big lesson. I was working for a company and my main purpose was to help them implement a good operating system as far as like how they work together, their processes, metrics, and. The outcome of that was to apply and receive the Malcolm Baldridge Award, which is a big deal.

And so that's where my mindset was at, and it was a different industry than I was used to working in. So I spent hundreds of hours watching training sessions and learning how to work within the industry, learning where they're coming from. So I felt really good and equipped to. Put our roadmap together and push us forward.

And I am competitive and I [: 00:04:00

I think we can do this. And just reminding them over and over again, I noticed that the CEO started acting differently. I. And there were some meetings that I was no longer involved in where before they, they tend to, they were bringing me into everything. And so I was talking to the president one day and I was very frustrated because I knew we had the ability to do what I wanted to do at that moment.

And I felt like that was gonna take us forward. And the president said that, he always said this too shall pass. Don't get too worked up. This too shall pass. But then he also said, you're smart and you bring a lot to the table, but he's, he's you like basketball, right?

And I [: 00:05:00

And that really hit me like a ton of bricks actually. It was just like, wow. Like I felt like we were playing on the play, the same team. And here he is talking about, do I even need to be here in, in the coliseum in the court? And so that was a big deal and I had to really change my direction, my approach, how I thought about things to carry us forward and to carry myself forward, be a part of the team.

Dr. Jim 2.0: there's a lot in there that we need to unpack, but the first thing that I wanna tackle. you mentioned earlier that you were brought in to implement a good operating system in

Kandi Gongora: Mm-hmm.

: Of [: 00:06:00

Didn't that set off any red flags in your brain when when you were going through that conversation? That's a lot of work to go

Kandi Gongora: It is.

Dr. Jim 2.0: thing to put on your mantle piece mantle.

Kandi Gongora: It is. It is it. When I was actually applying for the job, I had done some research around the award and I understood the, like it was given out by the Bryce president of the United States. And so it was an award created by the the government initially to help us actually compete against other countries in our quality and help our American countries do better, be better and be more efficient.

trying to break. Through how [: 00:07:00

So they were trying to change everything about their brand and their purpose. And so they felt like that national award, not only, receiving the award would bring attention, but the process you had to go through to get there was very rigorous and they felt like it was, validated in a way that was not just an easier word to get it actually validated it for our employees, for themselves and for our clients.

Dr. Jim 2.0: I like how you brought up the change in brand and the change in how you're perceived in the marketplace is validated by this award. I. One of the things that, that I think about when you look for those sort of external validation items as an individual.

ence any of that any of that [: 00:08:00

Kandi Gongora: I think so. I think that's what drove me a little bit to push on the direction I was heading because I had experience with ISO and some other awards and things. I didn't have direct experience with this. Process. I did obviously the study and then I became an examiner, which is a big deal for this award.

And so I was learning, and I do think that I was seeking that validation externally so that I didn't feel like I was an imposter. And I feel like I learned quickly. So the more I got that validation externally, the more I had confidence internally, but I still think I was seeking. Their validation to see me as an expert.

id have some of the external [: 00:09:00

Dr. Jim 2.0: when I hear that, I'm picturing K walking around with a chip on her shoulder, feeling like she's gotta prove herself to the people around around her. And if I'm tracking the right way, that had to be. Crushing when you started noticing that you were getting iced out of some of these meetings.

So what were you feeling at the time when you started seeing these things that you're seeking internal validation,

You're getting iced out of all of these important conversations?

Kandi Gongora: Just to give you some context, the industry was, and as I mentioned, it was a car dealership group, and it was a lot of men who have grown up in the industry. I came from outside the industry. I worked at Coca-Cola, and when I first came in, there were many times when I was implementing different programs or ways of working that they would tell me as a joke.

Go back to [: 00:10:00

So I did. Really build relationships there though li like lifelong friendships, but there was a huge hill to overcome and they, I really didn't understand the industry and that's why I'd started doing the training on the side myself so that I could relate to them. 'cause they were right. I didn't know what they were doing.

I didn't know how to sell a car or, ride up service for the car on the drive. So I overcome that. And had great partnerships and then I ran into this. So then that knocks you down a little bit. So then you're, you do go back into, how you're being seen and it does create, you're right, it does create a chip on your shoulder.

think there were many times [: 00:11:00

Dr. Jim 2.0: There's something that you said in what you just described that caught my attention, and that was your point, that you had people at the frontline saying, Hey, go back to Coke. We just sell cars over here.

Kandi Gongora: Right.

Dr. Jim 2.0: when I heard that. You're going through this big rebrand, or at least the strategic leadership wants to do this rebrand, but your frontline people don't see any part of this as being meaningful because they are under the belief that they just sell cars.

role, be like. There's a big [: 00:12:00

Kandi Gongora: Fortunately and unfortunately, but fortunately for me, they had applied to the Texas State Award before I got there. And three people were involved and they did not win. They thought they had everything buttoned up and everything was great, and the examiners came in and when they were verifying what was on the application, it's a very extensive process.

And they're usually on site for about a week and talking to lots of employees, they found the gaps, exactly what you're talking about. That leadership had this goal. The employees were doing a great job and they were great at what they did, but there was a gap of. The consistency and the shared larger vision.

as able to use that example. [: 00:13:00

That we had to use and change it into layman's terms. So tell them like, what they're really asking here is for this. They wanna know how do we, and then they wanna see our results. And so we created teams around the different categories of that award, educated all the employees in the award. And leadership was involved in that too, including the CEO of sharing why this is important and how it helps all of us.

And. And they, our tagline for our employees were experts in excellence. And so that really added to look, this actually does make them an expert in business, not just in the car industry, the auto industry. So that was a pretty easy sell because of their experience previously.

: So you went through [: 00:14:00

Have and maybe I'm getting the sequences wrong, but at some point you have a conversation with the president of the company and he said, he tells you about, the ball and the court and if you want, you can take your ball and go home.

Kandi Gongora: Right.

Dr. Jim 2.0: that's gonna spin up a whole nother series of things in in my head.

When you heard that, how did you respond ?

Kandi Gongora: As I mentioned, it took me back and so I had to really think through what does that mean for me? Is that it? It sounded threatening, but because I knew the president, that's not where he was coming from. He always apply tough love with me and still to this day, so I knew that. But it really made me reflect on what is my part here?

hat is, what do you mean and [: 00:15:00

And how can I change so that I have more influence and I'm seeing differently? The good news is he was, he made me feel as if this is not. It is not like your career's over, it's not like it's a career breaker, but it could potentially be a career staller if this continues. So luckily he told me early enough that I could make an adjustment because if I had gone on in that, down that path, who knows what would've happened.

Dr. Jim 2.0: So the sometimes when I hear team player come up in conversations.

I have a lot of similar wiring to you. I'm competitive. I want to go fast, and

Kandi Gongora: Yeah.

Dr. Jim 2.0: team player, hear go along to get along. You just gotta toe the line and just do what you're told.

Did any of that go through your head when you were processing the team player phrase and part of the conversation?

at went through my head was. [: 00:16:00

And so sometimes it's great and sometimes it's very frustrating because you can just see it and nobody else can. And so what went through my head is. He hired me for this. Like he literally hired me for this and in the interview I told him the CEO, if you hire me, I will, we will become a recipient.

I'm not able to bring forth [: 00:17:00

I felt like it took a little bit of the. Control or ability for me to help us win. And I felt a little helpless initially because I didn't know how to proceed or how to keep moving fast or how to work at the pace or the way that they wanted to work because I really didn't understand where he was coming from or how they were seeing things differently because I thought we were all running towards the same goal.

Dr. Jim 2.0: All right, so you went through all of that stuff.

Kandi Gongora: Yes.

Dr. Jim 2.0: and just to recap, you're brought in for a mission. You thought everybody was aligned to the mission. You start pushing to achieve the mission, and then all of a sudden certain groups are not even aligned. Some groups don't prioritize it the right way, and you got this whole mess and you got this other person that's telling you you could always take your ball and go home.

Kandi Gongora: Right.

Dr. Jim 2.0: So you went through all of that and you came out the other side.

t shake out and what did you [: 00:18:00

Kandi Gongora: I leaned into the president and really asked him to coach me and mentor me a little bit through this. 'cause he had been with the company a long time. He had a great relationship with the CEO. So through that, we got through it and we. Ultimately it did become a recipient of both the state and the National Award.

And great things came for the company and for me and my career, but it did create a lot of lessons learned. I think one of the things I learned is many times it is a me problem. And not a them problem. Like I really did feel that the CEO wasn't seeing it, that he couldn't see what I saw and so I was trying to help him, or I felt like I was trying to help him see it and acknowledge the gap, and then also a way through it using my expertise and my gift to get through it.

have to meet him where he is [: 00:19:00

And so I had to remember that. So I did learn that, and I also learned that questions are usually better than telling in a lot of situations. When you're going through a big transformation like that, you have your here, your two, and you're going to, you're from and you're going to this place and there is a big, messy middle.

And you have to be okay to be in that middle. And even though you wanna run fast and you can see the opportunity and you know that the leaders and the employees can do it like you see their potential. To take the time to, instead of just direct and say, this is what we can do, and go here and do this.

questions what's really your [: 00:20:00

Throughout the process, every time we're together and when he gives me a directive or he gives me feedback, ask questions, versus just taking that and then giving him my expertise. So those were just a couple of lessons that I learned that I do take forward. And it's hard because like I said, I see those things and I truly believe in the companies I work for and I wanna help them.

I. Succeed, and it can still be hard not to get frustrated or not to want to solve it quickly.

Dr. Jim 2.0: So one of the things that I like about what you just described is, you started off with a cliche, which I don't necessarily like, which is you gotta meet him where he is how do you do that, which is

Kandi Gongora: Yes.

: of questions that [: 00:21:00

Kandi Gongora: Yes. One I use often still today is, what is your pain today? I. Because I'm so focused on the goal and usually like in transformations, it's a longer term goal. It's not gonna happen overnight, but work's still happening, right? There's, you're still running a company. There's things that are still popping up that are where his focus may be.

up to a broader conversation [: 00:22:00

And do I pivot? Do I pause? Do I, change up some of the milestones? What? What does that look like? And so that really is helpful because. It's really trying to understand him or her from their perspective and sitting there, sitting their chair or walking their shoes for just a moment.

Dr. Jim 2.0: So I can imagine a scenario. Given the environment that you're in a male dominated industry and they sell cars.

Certain amount of ego that's involved in that industry, and I could imagine within that space. Getting annoyed with all these questions that are being asked.

Kandi Gongora: Right?

Dr. Jim 2.0: if you are the one that's asking the questions and then you sense that somebody is getting annoyed with these questions,

Would you respond to that sense of annoyance? And diffuse that so that you can keep clarifying things so that you're delivering a good product.

ra: Depending on the person, [: 00:23:00

I think we should do this, or I'm gonna go do this, or I'm gonna make these changes and just really show there's action coming from this. And. To your point about ego, if there is ego, I would turn my re I would reflect and share information that meets that ego that, that, reaches where they are as far as I see the gap that you're seeing.

I can help you here and here's what I'm thinking. So again, both of 'em have to show action. It just may be different. One may be like, just tell me what you're gonna do and leave. No more questions. And one could be. They wanna be heard too, and they wanna be acknowledged for the work they're doing or what's on their plate or the problems they have.

nt of I'm asking these que I [: 00:24:00

So there's a few different ways depending on the person.

Dr. Jim 2.0: you learned a lot of lessons in going through that experience. How did that help you fast forward your career trajectory in new opportunities that you took on?

Kandi Gongora: I helped tremendously because I learned how to partner better. I learned how to pivot and I also learned that the work is not lost. I think part of my frustration was. We were doing this great work and then we would run into a roadblock and we still had this great work or a pivot, or we're not ready.

ngs I learned to do without. [: 00:25:00

We did some great work and just because we're moving in a different direction or the CEO doesn't want to use that work right now, does not mean that it is lost. And so during my tenure there, I would do the work and when we pivot, which happened, I would tell my team, let's put it on the shelf. Let's put it on the shelf, and it will be there when this request comes up, or when the org is ready, or when the CEO sees the gap that we see.

It's gonna be there and then we'll pull it off and we'll be heroes because we can work even faster. And that happened over and over again. And so I've done carry that forward too. Is. The work is still done. It's still great work, it's still great thinking, and that helps my team not to get frustrated as well.

he leaders and the CEO. That [: 00:26:00

Fully aligned versus you gave me the outcome and now I'm just gonna go run over here to it.

Dr. Jim 2.0: So you, when you're talking about that process,

I like the fact that you called out, Hey, even if we take on a project and we finish it but it doesn't get used right away. It's still good work. We can put it on the shelf and come back to it when the organization is ready. and I want to dig into that organizational readiness

Kandi Gongora: Okay.

Dr. Jim 2.0: That you mentioned. What are the signals that indicate to you that an organization is at the right point in time for this specific type of change? Any any sort of signs that you can call out that Yeah. The timing is right for this.

e in it. It may not be. They [: 00:27:00

I think when the leaders are starting to speak that language. Whatever it is that's tied to we're moving. That's a good signal too, because if you're over here implementing something or making a transition, a transformation, and you're the only one speaking in that language or speaking to the future of what that's gonna look like, then the leaders aren't ready, which means the employees aren't ready.

that through. That's another [: 00:28:00

Dr. Jim 2.0: I want you to take a minute and talk to. That person that's 10, 15 years behind you right now,

Into their first big leadership role, what are the things that they need to pay attention to avoid the traps that you fell into when you experienced this?

Kandi Gongora: I think especially coming in and you may want to prove yourself, just understand it's not about you. Your worth is not about them going with your idea or going, fully bought into your direction. You're there for a reason and you can't take it personal and you can have the passion and be really excited about your job and succeeding, but you can't just walk, go in front of people or go rogue and be successful.

tand, to your point they get [: 00:29:00

It almost feels like you're a chameleon sometimes, because you need to show up differently. Still authentic, but differently for the different types of people you're working with. I think that's important. And I think also remember that if you are really asking the questions and you truly understand their goal in the moment, their short term goals, like the long term goal, but you're really going and hitting the short term goals, that's a win.

Even if it isn't the direction you're going to go in, and that builds trust. To where more and more they will listen to you or there'll be further discussions and healthy debate about your ideas. And so when you first get there, you have to work that, work through that. And sometimes you have to do things and be open to things that aren't your idea that you think might not work at all but they could.

And so trust that, trust yourself and trust the process and be open.

: Great [: 00:30:00

Kandi Gongora: The best place is on LinkedIn, and it's just my name, K-A-N-D-I, and then Gongora, G-O-N-G-O-R-A, which both are different spellings,

Dr. Jim 2.0: I will I'll make sure we we put that in the show notes. So I appreciate you hanging out and sharing with us your story. When I when I think about what we talked about. What stands out to me is a couple of things, and I'm speaking to anybody that has spent their career walking around with a chip on their shoulder, wanting to prove things to people. 'cause I think a lot of us who are high performers or competitive can fall into that category. I. We often come into these scenarios. We earn the spot because we can see a problem we've gotten the opportunity to go ahead and solve the problem. But just because we can see it doesn't mean anybody else sees what the problem is and that.

Is where things go from a you problem to a me problem.

It's our job to [: 00:31:00

If we don't take the time to ask the right questions at all levels of the organization, so people are looking at the world with a similar perspective, we're gonna get frustrated and we're gonna be told that you can take the ball, take your ball, and go home. And that's what we want to avoid. So if you wanna avoid the frustration of being able to see things and getting and getting aggravated because nobody else sees the same things that you're seeing, to take a step back and ask the questions that help reveal the world around the environment that you're in.

at with with us on the show. [: 00:32:00