What I Learned When My Leadership Project Imploded

Chris Forando: [: 00:00:00

and I realized that was equally true in my case, that this team was doomed to fail before we ever brought them together. And it was [00:01:00] because of a number of assumptions that I had made. And had never really tested.

Alexa Beavers: What happens when your strengths and your ego become the very things that derail you? My guest today, Chris Fernando, thought he was building the perfect project with the best talent. Instead, it became a fabulous disaster. In this episode of Transformation Unfiltered, Chris opens up about his fatal assumptions, his blind spots, and the hard truth that what motivates you doesn't always motivate others.

His story is a powerful reminder. Once we know better, it's on us to do better, and that real leadership starts with truly knowing yourself.

Today we welcome Chris Ferando, who is our Senior Director of Organization Effectiveness, talent Development and Employee Learning and Development at Subway's World Franchise Organization.

ple behind it can thrive. He [: 00:02:00

Chris brings more than 20 years of experience shaping culture and leadership across industries from beauty and pharma to sports and tech. He's held senior roles at L'Oreal Metadata Solutions, Bohrer Ingelheim and ESPN. Yes, that ESPN helping leaders in their teams find their footing and grow even stronger.

Teaching has always been a part of his DNA for the past two decades. Chris has also served as an adjunct instructor at Three Rivers Community College, sparking curiosity and courses like psychology, organizational behavior and leadership.

multiple advanced degrees in [: 00:03:00

Through all of it, one thing stands out. Chris is truly passionate about building leaders and cultures where people just don't show up to work. They grow, contribute, and belong.

Chris, I'm so delighted you're here on Transformation Unfiltered today. Thanks for joining us.

Chris Forando: Oh, it's a absolute pleasure to be here.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, just so excited that you can be here and share your story.

We had the opportunity to talk a little bit beforehand, so I know that you are up for getting right into the messiness of it all. Cause you know, we share a messy moment, but we end up sharing where that ends up at the end of the story. So why don't we start right there, smack dab in the middle of that time, early in your career when it was messy.

p leadership development and [: 00:04:00

And it was really an opportunity for us to observe a leaderless group, but to really see who emerged as leaders and later on. I had this idea of creating a super team, and what that entailed was taking our top 12, highest rated high potentials, putting them all on one team, and basically creating a super think tank, and they would be given an assignment from.

pany should consider getting [: 00:05:00

Just imagine what we could get out of a single team comprised of our highest rated high potentials.

Alexa Beavers: So far not so messy. What I'm hearing is, great aspirations, really excited to get these top players of your organization together around a really pivotal question about if you enter this new space. So far I'm excited because I love the idea of bringing people together around a problem.

Chris Forando: on paper it looked like it was gonna be a home run. In hindsight, I can say that it was an abysmal failure,

Alexa Beavers: Okay, so I wasn't expecting that. So let's unpack it a little bit. I would love to hear both versions, the brochure version and the what really happened.

. So I'll share with you the [: 00:06:00

They go above and beyond. They've got all of the traits, characteristics, qualities that we're looking for in our future leaders, as well as a number of them being considered. As successors to C-suite positions. So we feel that there is a tremendous amount of leadership potential within this group.

critical thinking instrument [: 00:07:00

So there's a considerable amount of psychological assessments that take place in order to ensure that, that we are getting the best and the brightest. Into this group of high potentials.

Alexa Beavers: So you're investing in the people so that you can really make sure that you're using a data based approach to not just be playing favorites, but to say, Hey, based on all of these different assessments that are valid and reliable, we've got something special here.

her as a team and help guide [: 00:08:00

And in doing so, we're also gonna put them through as, put them through a team assessment. In this case we used what was called the innovation style profile. So if we're asking this team to be innovative and creative, we wanna know what their. Creativity and innovation styles are to give us a sense of how well this team might perform.

Alexa Beavers: Okay, so I'm drinking your Kool-Aid based on your brochure, and I imagine that your pitch that you made to senior leadership might have been this brochure, but a lot of the energy that I'm feeling from you about, dang, this is gonna be amazing.

Chris Forando: Absolutely. Absolutely. There was there was complete consensus and agreement that, that this was a strong initiative and we had full support backing from the entire C-suite.

Alexa Beavers: And this was all your idea.

Chris Forando: All my idea,

ddle road. Where were you in [: 00:09:00

Chris Forando: this was actually early in my. Business career. So I had spent the previous 12 years as an officer in the US Coast Guard. I had spent the previous seven years on teaching staff at the Coast Guard Academy in New London, Connecticut. And this was my first foray into the business environment.

And this was probably about year three into my business career at this company. And, I was, I would say that I was on an upward trajectory and had been listed as talent myself, which was an interesting position to be on the list of high potentials and simultaneously managing all of our high potential programs.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, what was that like? Tell me a little bit more about being in that position and being the one who has this amazing idea.

leadership development. She [: 00:10:00

To ensure that we were getting the best and the brightest. And then I was entrusted with ensuring that they were going to get adequate leadership development, both in and outside of the company. And so inside the company we were constantly looking for experiential opportunities to not only grow and develop them, but to observe them as well.

Alexa Beavers: Okay, so there's a lot of learning on all different angles. They're not only doing this stuff, but they're in the fishbowl a little bit.

ah, absolutely. And and this [: 00:11:00

Focused on a single project. And like I said, it was a, the, it was a beautiful brochure. But when you get to the end of the story, you realize that what was on the cover is not what you actually experienced by the end.

Alexa Beavers: Okay. I am feeling a little bit on the edge of my seat. I do wanna ask you a question about you and all of this. You shared that you are also high potential. So I imagine you had been through all the assessments and all of that stuff. Here you are with folks that are also high potential.

anting to, show her what you [: 00:12:00

Chris Forando: Sure. So the in concept, we would have this team of high potentials. The executive coach was going to be the CHRO and between the CHRO and this team was going to be Chris Ferrando. I'm thinking to myself, there's gonna be a lot of exposure for this team. This is gonna be a, an incredible opportunity. For me to get exposure for me to demonstrate particular skills and abilities specifically with regards to being innovative bold and not being a part of a high performance or high potential team but in some regards, leading.

the team, there was still an [: 00:13:00

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, so seeing you in action was just the meta of this too, and you being the maestro of the architecture of this idea. So there was a lot of opportunity for exposure and for you to show your chops here.

Chris Forando: Yeah. And really to further prove that I belonged on that list of high potentials and maybe not only that I belonged on that list, but that I may have had a higher placement on that list.

Alexa Beavers: I think that this is setting up to be a very fascinating story, so I don't see how it could go wrong. So help me

to join you on the journey from perfect pitch, great brochure to what happened

rt of something very unique. [: 00:14:00

Innovative to work on a strategic project that could have considerable financial implications for the company in the future. And, really to just be a part of something unique and special to learn. So a lot of what I would call. What I would say intangibles and,

Alexa Beavers: and things that sound like they might be really important to you, things that you get jazzed about. Is that true?

urpose. And I think that's a [: 00:15:00

Where individuals were not incentivized by promotions, by reward, by bonuses, by pay raises, because none of that was ever offered in the military. You're basically given a job and a mission to do, and you're. You're expected to do it, and it's what I like to call the military or the mission mindset is you subordinate your ego and it's all about being a part of a special team, working with other like-minded individuals to accomplish a goal or objective, and there is no individual component.

uals are gonna coalesce as a [: 00:16:00

And we actually envision them almost as a self-directed, self-guided team that probably isn't going to need much direction and guidance. From outside the group because they're so strong as leaders that they're naturally going to be able to collectively guide this team to success,

Alexa Beavers: So a lot of the stuff you came in with were, it was checking a lot of boxes, strategic, creating something new, really connecting back to that thing that gave you a lot of energy from the Coast Guard that wow, this is gonna be the dream team all working toward this mission. And I bet they're gonna be such a dream team that they don't need a lot of direction.

Chris Forando: Absolutely to learn new things exposure to senior leadership and really to be challenged. And so in my mind that I, that's what people are looking for. People with drive and ambition, wanna be challenged. They want exposure, they want to learn new things.

But as I would [: 00:17:00

Alexa Beavers: Okay, so your whole body language, you're like, okay, now we have to get to the later on. And there was a lot of excitement and energy and even, your face was yeah, now you're like, it wasn't the case. So are you ready to reveal a little bit of what unfolded as you watch this experiment really go on its path?

It's self-directed path.

Chris Forando: we had all these strong personalities, a lot of confidence, a lot of ego, a lot of drive, a lot of ambition. But what we quickly realized was that with this self-guided team, without a designated leader. All of the individuals were s were beginning to assume that somebody else was going to step up and basically, be the leader that kind of marshaled everyone.

the whole effort. And so you [: 00:18:00

Alexa Beavers: what was it that made that clear? Because I imagine it didn't happen overnight.

Chris Forando: it was an observation that was made, over probably a period of two weeks where we weren't seeing any progress. So then we had to bring the group together. And say, Hey we're not seeing, we're not seeing any progress. When we ask for updates, we're not being provided anything.

And it doesn't seem like the team is, has really organized an effort in a direction. And so we really need someone to step up and to get this organized. And again, they all agreed and we still weren't seeing much. In the way of leadership being demonstrated. So we then brought them back together again, said the same thing.

a few people started to set, [: 00:19:00

Alexa Beavers: Were you the one that pulled the team together to say, Hey what's up here, guys?

Chris Forando: I was.

Alexa Beavers: So what was the internal dialogue as this was going down, especially since you had different ideas about what this would probably play out like?

Chris Forando: in the course of this I was having individual discussions with different members of the team just to get their perspective and, why isn't this happening or why is this happening? And that's when I really began to realize that, there may have been a design flaw in putting this together.

al those are my motivations, [: 00:20:00

They didn't see the work being a reward in itself. They actually thought of it more of as a burden and something that was gonna get in the way of their regular day jobs,

Alexa Beavers: If I was watching you, what, how did you come to that? How did you, what was it like when you that?

rewards, which none of that [: 00:21:00

And that's when we, that's when I realized that. What was motivating me with this project was not motivating others and that there was not a lot of motivation or energy amongst this group of individuals, but they all, they at some point they did realize and this was an interesting dynamic.

They did understand. That they were under a microscope. This is a project that was given to them by the C-Suite, and I think they all started to realize that, hey, I'm a part of this team, that the C-Suite is now wondering why we're not able to provide any updates and it doesn't look like we're making any progress.

We really should get going.

ligation or reluctance. It's [: 00:22:00

Chris Forando: No, and so a few individuals then really tried to take control of the team, and then that's where we started to notice a change, because now you have somebody that does step up, is trying to assert themselves. And put themselves into a position of power to influence and control the team.

But now you had others that were like I don't wanna be, I don't wanna be outshined by this individual. So then they started to assert themselves as the leader. And now you had two or three that started to emerge that wanted to go in different directions, but neither was formally appointed the leader.

And so we had this continued inertia as the individuals that were trying to assert themselves were trying to pull the team in different directions. And then each of them were trying to build their own alliance and coalition within the group

eavers: all that I can think [: 00:23:00

Chris Forando: essentially what ended up happening was just a few individuals of the team. Exerted what I would consider to be the minimal amount of effort necessary to produce a product and a presentation to present to the executive team that would bring this experiment or experience to a conclusion that would enable them to get back to doing their.

Regular jobs. And it was after that where, the CHRO, the vice President of talent basically shared with me that they felt that the project had been a failure.

Alexa Beavers: That seems hard to say out loud.

longest time. I looked at it [: 00:24:00

Alexa Beavers: It, the guys did.

Chris Forando: You blew. You blew it. Not only did you blow it for yourselves, but inside I'm thinking you didn't deliver for me.

Alexa Beavers: Ouch.

o them and say, your project [: 00:25:00

and I realized that was equally true in my case, that this team was doomed to fail before we ever brought them together. And it was because of a number of assumptions that I had made. And had never really tested.

you expand on that a little [: 00:26:00

Chris Forando: Sure. I assume that a team of all Stars would constitute an All Star team. I assume that you could take all of these high performing, high potential individuals and that they were motivated. By the same things that I was and that they were going to be equally excited to be a part of something elite, to be to be learning something new by by given the opportunity to be innovative and creative and to have exposure to senior level executives.

And I assume that all of those elements that I just mentioned. Were the reward of being a part of this experience and not realizing that I may have been projecting my own motivations onto this group and expecting them to perform as if it was me.

Alexa Beavers: [: 00:27:00

Chris Forando: one of the key learnings that I took away from it was to recognize the complexities and dynamics. Of bringing people together. And it shouldn't be based on a single designation, that they're a high potential. So high potential plus high potential equals three x high potential.

ain, one that I share with a [: 00:28:00

What fundamental assumptions are we making? And really, when you think about it, most of the successes that each one of us has accomplished and experienced was the result of what we knew and what we did with what we knew and our biggest failures. Have often come because of what we didn't know So the more that we can know, the better the outcomes of the decisions that we make. And along those lines, being conscious of how we may be projecting our own aspirations and our own desires. Into [00:29:00] situations and onto other people with unrealistic expectations.

Alexa Beavers: you're only human. You had a. You had a lifetime of experiences that taught you, this is motivating, this is great. Look at these things. And you had, above the waterline, you could see how great these folks were from their assessments. It sounds like what was challenging was being able to name those assumptions that came.

Honestly, based on your prior experiences, right?

Chris Forando: Yeah, absolutely. I often tell people that I don't really believe in failure. Because there, there's something that can be learned from everything. And so as, as long as you've, as long as you've learned something and that you can take that learning and apply it. Then what you had previously done wasn't a failure.

don't learn from it, and you [: 00:30:00

Alexa Beavers: So in addition to saying, Hey, there's more than meets the eye, there's more here than just a, high potential label. I need to call out my assumptions. And the other thing that you just shared was I. Failure is part of the game. And so maybe I don't believe in failure unless it happens over and over again the same way I don't learn from it.

your next experiment, that's [: 00:31:00

Chris Forando: One of the most prolific learning experiences of my career was years ago I had the opportunity to go to a workshop being hosted by a guy by the name of Russ aov, which many people have not heard of. He is since passed, but he was professor emeritus at Wharton University.

Was one of the foremost. Experts in the field of systems thinking. And he gave a workshop in Connecticut many years ago at the age of 80. And I was like, I've gotta register for this workshop quick because it is going to fill up the opportunity to engage with one of the world's greatest thinkers.

to this event, I register, I [: 00:32:00

He needed a walker to assist him, but his mind was as sharp as any that I've ever engaged with. And having so few people. When it came time to lunch, I could actually, I actually sat with him and had lunch with him, and had a one-on-one conversation and I had said something to him that, based on everything that I've heard from you today, I'm starting to think that people are the root cause of every problem in an organization. And I'll never forget, he pounded his fist on the table and he said, people will always be the root cause of problems because only people can learn and change and adapt.

ss. You can't play blame the [: 00:33:00

And that completely changed how I started looking at organizations and their barriers to execution and why they're not, why they're not, as, healthy and vital and successful as many would like to be. And so I started just focusing on the people aspect. And that kind of underlies, underlies a lot of what was learned in this whole experiment really is it wa it was never really about the design.

e, but it, what it did is it [: 00:34:00

Alexa Beavers: and their dynamics between them.

Chris Forando: Oh, absolutely. And the more individuals that you bring into kind of a confined space, the, there's gonna be an exponential rise in the complexity.

And you think about just think about the complexity of managing a single relationship. And you think about, power, motivation, aspiration, education, training, motivation and those are just a few aspects of one individual. Now you com now you bring two of those individuals together and the complexity rises.

like a particle accelerator [: 00:35:00

Alexa Beavers: I think that idea is really powerful because I think if it can be something that is chaotic energy. There might be something that could turn it into powerful energy for creating something. Awesome. So what do you think it is that you learned that could shift that?

Chris Forando: Yeah, so I think one of the. I think one of the lessons that I took away from that one, was the value of using a variety of assessments to really get a better understanding of those complexities so that we could truly understand the variance in thinking style, in communication style, in con, in managing conflict, in understanding.

stepping back and say, okay, [: 00:36:00

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, creating the experience is interesting. I think that, it's not just about creating a system or the design, it's about those things, plus the human factors. What's gonna motivate, what's going to be the relationships between people and power dynamics and how they exchange information and things like that.

And also, what's the thing that's, they're all working for. So I think it's an addition. One of the things you also mentioned is, you had these assessments to get a better, better understanding, and earlier in our conversation you said something if more, then you can do better. Was that part of that at all?

and predict the dynamics the [: 00:37:00

Your best teams are going to have the greatest amount of diversity. Something that I've learned over the years is that wherever your greatest strength is, often lies your greatest weakness. But we don't think about the weakness because we're o we only see it as a strength.

t from the community college [: 00:38:00

Ferdo, we've been going for over two hours. Can we have a break? And I'll realize, yeah. But and so one of the things that I've, I learned, years ago and something that I've been focused on for my own development, is I had to be more conscious of. Of my talking and being the first to speak up because I realized that what I consider to be a strength actually doubled as my greatest weakness because I was not giving other people the opportunity to talk.

And people were feeling like they didn't have the opportunity to talk. And so I've consciously had to, stop being the first one to raise my hand, or to talk. And a lot of that was driven by the fact that as a pathological extrovert, I don't like silence. It's discomforting.

waiting for somebody else to [: 00:39:00

So analyze your greatest strength and figure out how, is this simultaneously my greatest weakness?

Alexa Beavers: And how do I use it with discretion, which is the last part you talked about. I've learned that I need to not be the first one.

In some cases. That

doesn't mean you always be quiet. It just means what am I doing by introducing this now?

at implemented this. But the [: 00:40:00

On it in the rush to meet your own personal need. You didn't think about the group, the larger group or the organization, or the team or the department. Your rush to get credit for your specific team has now impacted HR as a whole. And it's taken a number of years to, to learn that and to admit to it.

But, once you really start analyzing yourself, your motivations, how you may be projecting those on others, and you start to think about everything that you've learned from your mistakes, there's an even greater confidence. That begins to emerge and it will make you a strong leader, no doubt.

ers: Chris, I am so grateful [: 00:41:00

Chris Forando: No, I am not, and I wanna thank you for. This opportunity and, in full transparency, some of the questions that, that you asked me, forced me to reflect on that experience and I gained new learning. From doing that, and I'm glad that I'm able to share that and I'm hope, I hope that for a few of your [00:42:00] listeners, even if it's just one, if one listener walks away with a key learning from here and it helps them in their career and their leadership development then this was time well spent.

Alexa Beavers: thanks Chris. And that's why we do it. And I'm expecting you to ask all your community college students to take a listen to Transformation Unfiltered. And before we share a little bit about how people can get in touch with you, I would love for you to share one piece of advice to either the younger Chris Fernando or. Anybody that's coming up in this space and really wanting to do a great job because I know that your heart and your head were always in the right place and you know now you're even stronger because of the things you've learned from that experience. So what advice would you share?

ver took, and as a, as an IO [: 00:43:00

I realized that I needed to do the same for myself. So if I'm going to administer an assessment to somebody. I should have completed it myself. And so you just start compiling these assessments that you're taking. And I would encourage people that as you do this, take a moment to stop and reflect and look at how those assessment outcomes relate and what is it telling you?

What are you learning about yourself and. One of the things that I've come to realize is that when you stop and think about who you are, how you became who you are, why do you think the way that you do? Why do you dress the way that you do? Why do you eat the things that you do? Why are you interested in things that you do?

bout what have been the most [: 00:44:00

And so you should just be focused on not comparing yourself to others. But comparing yourself to you, how will, how are you better today than you were yesterday? How will you be better tomorrow than you were last week? And one of my, one of my favorite proverbs is there's nothing noble about being superior to another person.

r self. And it's that has me [: 00:45:00

Alexa Beavers: Do you wanna tell people? Have you come to that conclusion yet?

Chris Forando: there's some of the reflections around recognizing. Where I was making assumptions and that, me projecting my motivations and aspirations, but there will no doubt be some additional learnings that emerge as I reflect on our conversation today.

t I grow even more tomorrow? [: 00:46:00

Chris Forando: And if you even think about, what you had said to me earlier, and I had said, can you Photoshop me? And you had said, you are great just the way that you are. That's something that your listeners can take away is that, that you are who you were meant to be and that you shouldn't be comparing yourself with others.

And to just take the opportunity to reflect on who you are, what your me motivations are, what your aspirations are and to pursue who you want to become, not necessarily what others want you to be.

Alexa Beavers: Where can people find you when they wanna say, Hey Chris, I need to know more.

s looking for an opportunity [: 00:47:00

Alexa Beavers: Great. Thanks for spending time with us and sharing your unfiltered story. Chris. Folks, if you liked what you heard and you wanna hear more from leaders who are ready to share, some of the things that we wouldn't just talk about in the workplace please don't hesitate to listen to Transformation Unfiltered. You can find us on your favorite podcast platform where you'll hear from leaders who are sharing the unfiltered truth about how they got where they are today. Just like Chris. Thanks, Chris.