“Say the Thing”: Building Teams That Tell the Truth at Work

Stacey Harris: [: 00:00:00

And he was like, no, I really want you to slow down to write down. And replay back to yourself what took place. And oftentimes I do not acknowledge my accomplishments because I just need to go onto the next task. So when I say slow down, I think that's also a part of the journey for any profession, not just an HR professional.

elf to one breathe, regulate [: 00:01:00

Alexa Beavers: When a VP made a disparaging comment about African Americans, she was the HR leader called to address it. She's African American herself. Yet years of diplomacy. Protecting the organization from risk and keeping her emotions out of the process meant she never said what she truly needed to say, her measured approach.

It worked on paper, but there was a cost carrying the weight of words left unsaid and leaving human to human disconnect between her and the vp. In this conversation, she shares how that moment taught her to slow down. Speak up and lead with courageous humanity and why? Now she runs her team in a way that makes it safe to say the thing that needs to be said regardless of the titles of the people in the room.

years of [: 00:02:00

She's also led some cost saving strategies, strengthening recruitment and retention, and she's built many succession planning programs that position companies for the future. At the core of Stacy's work is a commitment to applying HR best practices that not only support employees, but also enhance overall organizational performance.

Stacy, thank you so much for joining us today and being willing to share a little bit about your career journey today.

Stacey Harris: I, Alexa, thank you for having me today. I appreciate the opportunity.

Alexa Beavers: Stacy, why don't we just get right into it and are you ready to dish out what your messy moment was that you'd like to share?

onal presence, there was a a [: 00:03:00

Alexa Beavers: You'd think in this day and age, microaggression is a common term, but tell us a little bit more - what exactly happened so that, even my mom could understand.

Stacey Harris: Most definitely. So in this microaggression is a unintentional comment made against a marginalized group. And during this session the senior executive made comment about African Americans not necessarily having strong writing skills.

Alexa Beavers: Whoa.

t, especially with her being [: 00:04:00

After that session the person did bring it to my attention and just wanted to run by me. If what she heard was what she heard and I did let her know that what you heard was what you heard. That is correct. And that should not have been said in that conversation, especially due to I would say the racial makeup of our organization at that time, or even if it didn't matter, does, it doesn't matter what the makeup of our organization was, she should not have made that comment.

She wanted to give a little bit more thought about how she wanted to proceed in that. And I always ask individuals who are bringing grievances to me, what is your ask of me? What would you like for me to do with this information? Would you like me to coach you through a difficult conversation?

becomes a little bit sticky [: 00:05:00

She knew that her loyalty really lied or lead with the the CEO at that time and wanting to protect him and his legacy and leadership,

Alexa Beavers: I'm just imagining myself sitting in this meeting, watching this all go down. We have this senior executive, she makes this comment that is offensive

And. If I was in the seat of this person who came to share I'm hearing you say, yes, this happened and you're so calm right now.

You're so matter of fact, was that how it was when it actually happened?

Stacey Harris: As I reflect back on that moment, and even in other points in my career, folks have commented me on my poker face and stoic responses because I know in my role I need to be really balanced and not feed into someone's emotion, whether it's charged or not. So I would say yes, that in that moment I wanted to remain calm for her.

te for our employee. She was [: 00:06:00

Alexa Beavers: In the room when it happened?

Stacey Harris: No, I was not, unfortunately, I was not in the room, but I was pleased enough that the colleague was comfortable enough to raise that versus ruminating on that by herself or with individuals outside of the organization. So that did also bring comfort to me, knowing that from an HR perspective, that I do truly offer and provide that open door policy that if individuals want to come in to speak to me regarding whatever's going on in their day to day that they can do

nt. This is certainly messy. [: 00:07:00

Stacey Harris: I would say as I reflect back on that, showing up for the employee remaining calm, but knowing internally, I now need to investigate something that's really sticky. Because it also, not only was it a microaggression made during this during this meeting. There was also a power imbalance. This was a senior executive and the person who heard this comment was a junior staff member.

I would say my messy moment as I reflect back on this is when I was speaking with her and I spoke with everyone who was in that meeting to understand what they heard, what, how did they take away from the comment? Did they hear the comment? My messy moment was when I was speaking with the person who made the comment and not, I feel them in the moment not doing a good job of being direct with her to let her know that your comment was insensitive.

me just call her. While also [: 00:08:00

And also as a person of color that, that comment is not appropriate to say to anyone

Alexa Beavers: Wondering how you felt in all this. It's a biting comment that may have been said. In a way that was, it wasn't meant that way. And here you are the HR person having to wear so many hats and a woman of color and needing to do what's right for the organization, do what's right for all of the employees of the organization, who come from many different backgrounds and have, so I imagine that was very messy.

frican American, a person, a [: 00:09:00

D one due to my role, but also due to me as a human being of letting her know that you shouldn't never make that comment regardless of our, the makeup of our organization as it relates to our staff. It's insensitive. The comment was made, I believe in, in, as it relates to recruiting practices.

look for people from certain [: 00:10:00

Alexa Beavers: there were biases that were beyond this

This was a symptom of perhaps a larger behavior pattern.

Stacey Harris: Most definitely. And I think that's probably why. The colleague at that time felt it was time for her to make a formal complaint.

Alexa Beavers: You said you think your messy moment was not being as direct with this person. Meanwhile, you also have to think, okay, how do I not. How do I stay calm for this employee while also being direct and mod, making sure that this person knows that's not okay here. So what were the costs of being less direct?

Stacey Harris: That's a really good question. The cost of being less direct.

my attention, or at least I [: 00:11:00

I don't think there was a cost of me not being for me being less direct. The message was received. She was embarrassed. Very apologetic. And I think some, I think her actions after that incident changed, I would say

Alexa Beavers: I am picking up that your diplomacy is a powerful strength

There were no costs organizationally, because you made your way through it. I'm wondering, how did that feel to you on the inside as somebody that was also an African American woman and here, you're looking in the face of someone that made these microaggressions and you're playing it cool.

So what is that

Stacey Harris: I would say the cost for me, because I am so measured, is that I don't release. And I don't necessarily reflect on situations because I'm the person who needs to get it done. And at the end of the day, when it's something that's so emotionally charged, such as this situation, it is draining for me.

It is draining [: 00:12:00

Impacts me in hearing that this comment was made, I think that may have been a missed opportunity that could have even further cemented what her learning experience was in that moment. Yes, you impacted this individual. I never would, her response was, I would never hurt anyone, especially this person.

for me, but you did. And now [: 00:13:00

You may hear this throughout our discussion today, is that it didn't, it probably would not have happened in the moment. But I could still have went back to her after I had my moment of reflection to say, Hey, just human to human and needing to manage these muddied, muddied waters that you created.

This is how it landed with me.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah. I think that's so courageous to even admit, we have to walk through this world and act like we have all of our acts together and that nothing, we're Teflon. It doesn't, it bounces right off me. No big deal. And I imagine there's a bit of a weight to, doing that, you said one of the things that you need is to rest and recharge. What was it like during that time for you? What were you feeling like energetically ?

Stacey Harris: At that [: 00:14:00

But then also part of my job is to keep the company compliant. So being able to navigate those orders, sometimes it, it doesn't go as planned and it will play out the way it plays out. But the reminder for me is how did I show up as the HR professional? I can't control how people show up and who they bring as themselves to the workplace, but I, what I can do is to let them know how they're behavior may be in alignment or not in alignment with the culture that the organization says that they wanna have.

ing your eye on the job. Was [: 00:15:00

Stacey Harris: I do a good job of putting things in a box compartmentalizing things. But I think it shows up when I'm exhausted and then I just generalize it being rest. For me it could be a nap. It could just be taking it easy on the couch. It could be a leisurely walk just. Resting because I need to decompress from something that has been so highly charged because I need to show up, or at least I feel that I need to show up as the ultimate professional.

And being mindful of people's energy when they come into my space. 'cause I do absorb it. I think the impact of that is for me to rest.

Alexa Beavers: So it sounds like the learning for you, and one is you could have connected on this human level with this person.

Stacey Harris: I agree.

different hats, that rest is [: 00:16:00

Stacey Harris: correct? Yes, it is. It

Alexa Beavers: With all of this, knowing that you're a great compartmental, it did have kind of an impact on you, but you were able to manage it. What are the things that you took away from that whole experience? What lessons?

Stacey Harris: I would say the lessons were, regardless of your position, you can learn from your mistakes. And I think what I also recognize is that just because a person has a certain title for people not to assume that they're not human. I've also learned from that experience that it's okay to bring a little of yourself into situations if it helps to drive home the learning experience for that individual or for everyone involved.

releasing it, it will, your [: 00:17:00

And I would say being courageous in moments where it's uncomfortable.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah. I think that when you're, one of the lessons that really stands out to me is you just said, be courageous in the moments when it's uncomfortable, and I almost wonder, where's your uncomfortable meter? Because it seems like you have a very high tolerance for uncomfortable stuff.

Stacey Harris: I think I present well inside. It's like the, what was that cartoon where they were talking about emotions and all the little characters are running around that's what is going on.

Alexa Beavers: There's something on the inside doing that.

g hr, but coming to a point, [: 00:18:00

Alexa Beavers: I think that it's telling to hear you say that while I look cool as a cucumber on the outside, I've got all of the emotions happening on the inside, and you're learning to navigate with that in a way that you didn't before.

Stacey Harris: I'm learning to slow down because even with that incident that was highly charged, once it was done. I was over it. It was like, okay, next. That was handled successfully. Successfully to the point, not that it happened, but the results were successful for the person who were, who was impacted by it.

What's next on my list?

Alexa Beavers: And

Stacey Harris: That's

vers: never another thought. [: 00:19:00

Stacey Harris: Correct. And my super, my, the CEO that I reported to at that time said, do you ever slow down to write down, the events or the, your accomplishments specifically this event, he said you handled that so well. That I'm not sure. And the person also said this to me as well, that if someone else were in that seat, they're not sure if it would've been handled the way that I handled that situation, and my response to the both of them was, oh, I'm a department of one who else was going to do it?

And he was like, no, I really want you to slow down to write down. And replay back to yourself what took place. And oftentimes I do not acknowledge my accomplishments because I just need to go onto the next task. So when I say slow down, I think that's also a part of the journey for any profession, not just an HR professional.

ttle bit for yourself to one [: 00:20:00

Alexa Beavers: I think that's incredibly powerful. Acknowledgement. Not only acknowledging your past accomplishments, but even I heard you go towards acknowledge the emotions, acknowledge the stuff that you're facing right now, give yourself some space to breathe

Instead of rushing to solve

Stacey Harris: get through it,

Alexa Beavers: That is very insightful and I'm wondering what does that look like now differently now that you're you said, I'm learning. As you learn, I'm sure you're practicing things. Sometimes it goes great. Sometimes you might have some backslides, but what does slowing down, acknowledging both your accomplishments and also your, where you are, the feelings, what does that do for you and your role?

Stacey Harris: I was gonna say, I, what it does is it's gratitude.

e losses also equal learning [: 00:21:00

Someone just asked me the other day what do you do to, what do you do to slow down or to recharge? I'm like once I get the department up, 'cause I have a new department now, once I get folks up. I know that then I can breathe. 'cause I know each of you are in different, learning of your role stages.

But that excites me 'cause now I have a full team where I don't need to take that all on by myself.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, so I think it sounds like you are pretty good at doing things yourselves in the past, yourself, in the past. 'cause you're like, who is gonna do now it sounds excited and inviting, doing something as a team.

Stacey Harris: Most definitely doing something as a team and doing things differently than I have in the past, and that's the slowing down piece. Just slowing down everything is not urgent, although folks will, present it that way. And being able to reroute people to other individuals who may be able to assist them.

So yes.

s: If you had looked back at [: 00:22:00

Stacey Harris: I would say probably that moment to give her, not Stacey hr, not you senior executive, but person to person, what the impact of her comment has made on me. Just to give her a different perspective of what. Of how that intent works. I didn't intend to offend anyone and we've all done it before.

So definitely giving her grace there, but just being more aware of comments that I think, again, I think that definitely would've driven the point home a little bit more for her. I hope,

Alexa Beavers: Yeah. What would it have done for you? Would it have done anything for your. In any way to have told her that.

Stacey Harris: I think it would've been a release. It's something that I'm not necessarily harboring. I've said what I needed to say, you. It lands where it will land, but at least I know I've released it.

release, you've talked a lot [: 00:23:00

That you're moderating.As you think about you leading this team of people.

And with these lessons in your back pocket, how do you deploy this today?

Stacey Harris: I would like to think. That what I'm trying to do, the team would say I'm creating an environment where, one, we can have fun to do our jobs. 'cause sometimes it's, it gets heavy and it gets a little sticky. And I'm creating, what I'm hoping is an environment where my team members can challenge me on, how we're managing things here.

I'll call our office, that I [: 00:24:00

Day in, day out, and I've told each of my team members that although I'm the person who's leading this HR function, I can learn from you just as you can learn from me. So just because I'm telling you how I do things, you may have a easier quicker way to complete a task. By all means, I am open to working smarter, not harder, but I definitely want this to be a true collaboration.

And with all of that being said, I am still wanting us to provide. Top customer service to our clients who are our employees, and if there's ever a time where you need assistance or I would never ask you to do something that I would not do myself.

ssons was. People are people [: 00:25:00

Stacey Harris: yes.

Alexa Beavers: the way you are running your team is say the thing to me.

Say it to me. I don't care if I have the C in front of my title. I don't care if I'm, the head of hr. I want you to say the thing.

Stacey Harris: right.

Alexa Beavers: Tell me more about how you. Are cultivating that on your team and what do you get for it?

Stacey Harris: What I do to get that from the team is to, I'll say, Hey, here's your task. Here's how I'll do it. But by all means you tell me what's best for. I invite them to share their point of view. As long as our end result is the same, have at it. I do want them to feel empowered to get their job done.

And what I just realized with you asking that question. Is what I'm hoping I'm creating for them is that when I didn't have that at their level during my career is not being afraid to use your voice.

Alexa Beavers: Don't be afraid to use your

definitely want to hear your [: 00:26:00

And that doesn't necessarily impact any change. But being comfortable to use your voice even when it's uncomfortable.

Alexa Beavers: I think that's such a gift to give your team to let them know that their voice matters and say the hard thing, and it doesn't have to be as scary as it might have been for that person. That came to you, that safe place when she couldn't say it to that person in that meeting. As you've come, to your new role is there any advice that you'd give to someone 15 years, your junior, now that you have this nice rear view mirror happening?

What's your advice for somebody coming up.

Stacey Harris: I would say enjoy the process. Learn from your mistakes. Don't be afraid to make mistakes either. That seems a little scary, especially coming from a person who we all wanna make sure we're doing everything accurate and correctly. Don't be afraid to make mistakes and learn from 'em. And I would definitely say I would, again, use your voice.

ne in, a way where it's it's [: 00:27:00

Alexa Beavers: Don't be afraid to challenge the status quo professionally.

Stacey Harris: right?

Alexa Beavers: And it's good for the organization, it's good for your team, and I think it might be good for you because there's that release. You don't have this thing swimming around at your head at two in the morning, keeping you up at night.

Stacey Harris: correct.

Alexa Beavers: I know somebody that said something about that. Do you wanna give a nod to someone who said, thi something about things in your head? Living rent free.

Stacey Harris: oh, my father has shared with me many a times of don't let things you know, ruminating your in your mind, rent free. You need to release it. And that's just another way that it can be done, but practice where a person feels safe enough. Again, going back to your, the original question of 15 years, my junior just use your voice, so release it and whatever that looks like for you.

ed to do it, but you need to [: 00:28:00

Alexa Beavers: don't. I love that your father used that. I love it. And yeah, we don't want these unsupportive, unhelpful thoughts that need to come out live in your head, rent free. And Stacy, you said something really important. You said practice in a safe place.

What, did you have any safe place along the way so people can know where to look?

Where do I find that safe place?

Stacey Harris: I would say I'm hoping that people can find that within their supervisor. Also mentors. It doesn't need to be necessarily within your group, it could be within the organization, it could be outside of the organization, but being able to find that safe space of someone that you can bounce ideas off of safely in the manner of, when I say safely, someone who's not gonna throw it back in your face.

So an objective party who has a who has an open mindset, who can, who can guide folks is what

Alexa Beavers: an open mindset and even maybe a open human heart, like you said before.

Stacey Harris: There you go.

Alexa Beavers: Nice.

Stacey Harris: That always leads the way.

. Stacy, it has been so much [: 00:29:00

Stacey Harris: I would love for folks to reach out. I am on LinkedIn at Stacy Harris. That's it.

Alexa Beavers: Stacy Harris. And we're gonna put Stacy's contact information in the show notes. Of course. You know what's so powerful is your superpower, which is diplomacy being measured, combined with let's just get this stuff done.

Those things have driven you forward in your career, and when you add to those things, the ability to use your voice, not the ability, but the courage to say the thing that's hard Say the thing that has to do with those creepy little emotions that we don't always wanna bring into the workplace.

a whole person. And even if [: 00:30:00

And you'll get to meet some other fabulous leaders like Stacy who are courageous enough to share those messy moments that built them up to where they are today because it all is a learning experience. So tune in next time and we'll see you then