How Letting Go Fuels Leadership Growth

Eric Shangle: [: 00:00:00

Let's do it this way, and learn from that mistake. So allowing people to make mistakes and knowing when you can make mistakes is super important.

Alexa Beavers: What if the very habits that make you successful are the same ones keeping you stuck?

. He had built a system that [: 00:01:00

It came at the cost of his own growth. In this episode, Eric takes a minute to look back. On the moment, he realized that his obsession with getting everything right was actually holding him back and burning him out. We talk about why perfection is a sneaky career killer, how over-functioning quietly ruins team development and why your future self might just want you to let go a little. Let's dive in.

Eric Sheel leads, people and culture at Pine Gate Renewables where he is focused on creating an environment where people can do their greatest work. His team spans hr, talent acquisition, learning and development, total rewards and engagement, all aligned around one purpose, building a culture of collective accountability and high performance.

years of [: 00:02:00

Eric holds an MBA from the Naval Postgraduate School, a Master's of Arts in Human Relations, and a BS in Ocean Engineering from the US Naval Academy. He now calls Asheville as home and brings the same commitment to his local community as he does his teams. In this episode of Transformation Unfiltered, Eric shares what it's like to build resilient cultures, lead through complexity, and stay grounded in what actually matters most.

one of those big moments in [: 00:03:00

Maybe one of those moments that was a mistake or a challenge.

Eric Shangle: Lots of mistakes, lots of challenges. I think the one thing that stands out the most was, this was my, one of my first or early times in a true HR leadership role. I was working in hotels in San Francisco as a director of human Resources, and at the time. We had five labor unions. We had multiple employees in multiple departments.

And my background as a naval officer, set me up for my career in hr. And I felt that I had to do everything. And I felt that I had to make sure that every, t was crossed, I was dotted. And. It really created bottlenecks for me. On one hand, everything was running like clockwork from an HR perspective, from a, performance perspective.

really, I. Was proud of the [: 00:04:00

I was doing everything, and again, things were working great. But I didn't recognize at what cost and that was actually having in my career and actually in the rest of the company's performance as well and the development of the management team,

Alexa Beavers: Wow. So I love that you got great training through the Navy to come into the HR role. And I just wanna back up and understand a little bit more about what it would've been like if I was on your team during that time. You came in, you're working in not the Navy anymore, in a hotel. A do it all, get do it all and do it well, I think manager,

Eric Shangle: Yeah.

Alexa Beavers: for the folks that worked with you?

there was a feeling of trust [: 00:05:00

And I think that is the, that's the key lesson learned is, I viewed human resources as transactions. I. And I think, in the Navy, and, and as more of a manager role you are, it is very transactional. And as you move into that next level it's more than just being transactional.

So I think from a, if you were a member of the team, whether it be an employee or a manager or a leader you knew things were gonna get done. You, it was, Hey, go talk to Eric. Go talk to Eric. But what was happening was, is that I wasn't. Developing and allowing the team, the leaders, the managers to grow in their career.

hought leadership along with [: 00:06:00

Alexa Beavers: I think that's a really good insight about the ver d differences. Retake. I think that's really interesting about the differences between being transactional and being strategic, and I'm gonna do the mean host thing and pull. You back into the moment that you didn't wanna, that you don't wanna be in anymore 'cause you've grown past it.

But take me back there, what was it like for you? Because transactional leaders, that itch was there because it was successful for you, I bet. In some place in your life. What was it like to be transactional? What would I see?

Eric Shangle: Look, a couple things. I I think, even going, answering a question you didn't ask is, transactions for strategic. I think there's a big misunderstanding about what it means to be strategic, especially in human resources. I. And I think there are sometimes that talking to junior HR professionals or even emerging HR professionals, the question is, I want to be more strategic in my career.

st sitting around and making [: 00:07:00

So going back to that point in my life my experience had been in the military. My experience was very much get the job done. And it was very top down and in the approach to that, so not that I was top down in my approach to human resources, but I in implemented processes and tools.

That were binary. It was this way or no way. And as much as that worked for me and it made sure that we were compliant and made sure that, everything was moving along, it wasn't allowing people to transform, it wasn't allowing iterative conversations. It wasn't allowing alternative ways to achieve the same.

believe I, that's so basic. [: 00:08:00

I think it's really, at that time I was focused on the job, the what As opposed to the how. I think the how is, so it's equally as important because it can actually find alternative ways to do the what.

Alexa Beavers: There were such good nuggets in there. One, this whole idea of a binary process or choice. It's either. Follow path A or follow path B. And what I'm hearing from you is that is a limiting construct.

Eric Shangle: Absolutely. Yeah.

Alexa Beavers: Tell me more about how that binary this or that was limiting to you and your team members back in the day.

way I'd set up the processes [: 00:09:00

And so what was happening is I had to be involved in everything. I had to be involved in every discussion. I had to be involved in every remediation. Anytime we did performance reviews, engagement surveys, everything. I was involved in that because it was my process as opposed to really setting, here's the expectation, here's what we need to accomplish and recognize there might be different ways to accomplish that as long as that there's agreement on what we need to accomplish.

And I think that's where it really comes down to, there's certain things we just have to get done and there's really, I. Only a few ways to get it done, but when you're not enabling the manager specifically to be a part of the process and letting them make mistakes along the way and knowing that I'm the safety net or there's other safety nets, you're really missing the point of what HR is about.

o grow and that stunts their [: 00:10:00

So it, what I was not doing was viewing all the managers as assistant HR managers, and when I started in later in my career, unfortunately it wasn't in that job when I said, oh, I need to actually treat. Every manager is someone that's on my team and train them and develop them to be able to handle some of these situations to be able to handle the difficult conversations.

It actually freed up my time to become more strategic. So instead of just being transactional, I was actually able to be more of a thought partner in the organization. And and what I really had to do is learn where do I need to make sure that I'm in the conversation and in the process, and where do I need to be?

The safety net.

Alexa Beavers: Nice. I am curious a little bit about how much sleep you were getting when you were that single threaded hr, genius. I think you set yourself up as like you were really the go-to guy.

Eric Shangle: I thank [: 00:11:00

I thought that was success, that I was needed, my, look how important this job is. I'm being included in everything, but what I was doing is I was missing the boat of really moving managers and leaders along and allowing them to grow in their career. And I just. It was a huge mistake on my part at that company.

Now, granted things were operating great, but not everything has to be perfect, and I think that's a big, lesson or a point that I try to make with my team now is we need to know when we have to get an A and sometimes a B is good enough. Sometimes a C is good enough, but, understanding what needs to have an A and making sure that's the priority, let's focus on that.

or teams or other companies [: 00:12:00

If you can start thinking about what really is the most important thing to get done, make sure that's done at that highest level. And then also developing the managers, developing the leaders to help out along the way. You're actually able to move the company forward a lot quicker.

Alexa Beavers: I love that you brought that forward. So if you're just transactional, you're. Really single threaded. You're the, what did you call it?

Eric Shangle: Single point of failure.

Alexa Beavers: Single point of failure. And that has is a lot of pressure. Although I think that having the training you

Eric Shangle: I.

Alexa Beavers: through your life, you probably got really good at transactional and getting things done.

ndering, how did you come to [: 00:13:00

Eric Shangle: I don't know if there was a single point in time where I realized it. I had an amazing CEO at a company after that, my time in hospitality. That was she was really big on collaboration and I didn't really understand what collaboration was. I think until that point, and again, I think in the military collaboration isn't always what's sought after because you need to have a chain of command.

And it's very, like I said, it's very top down, whereas collaboration is taking. A group of people and maybe at different levels of the organization and coming together to solve something together and listening to each other's ideas. And so taking more of a collaborative approach to my work in human resources.

cess implementation and that [: 00:14:00

The managers could do that, and then I could work with the managers and ask did you know what, how did the discussion go? What were the outcomes? And that coaching aspect of that was doing two things. Three things actually. One, it was developing the manager and they were becoming better in their job and being, able to manage the team better so they were advancing in their career.

It was freeing up some of my time where I wasn't the single point of failure for everything. And third, it was really helping the organization grow. In developing managers and those managers become leaders and those leaders are able to pass that on. So to me it's this huge ripple effect in a positive way as to opposed to, leaving awake behind you in your work.

ding process accountable. If [: 00:15:00

And part of your job is managing the team and leading the team. And I think those are two different skill sets, but it, it's, it can't just be transactional with hr. We have to be helping shepherd that development along for them and getting to the point where they're actually doing that effectively.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, you named something that you're like it. It helped us in three ways. Three ways. You began through collaboration, developing others, building their capability, and they were growing that you had time so that you could actually be more of focused on the how the partnering.

Eric Shangle: Yeah,

Alexa Beavers: of just the transactional processes.

And lastly, that helped the company to grow because

Eric Shangle: absolutely.

Alexa Beavers: was building capability within, it's almost like a virtuous cycle instead of a vicious one.

ough just conversations with [: 00:16:00

And I think that's really important. I believe it is our job to develop the management team and to be that partner for them. Not the transactional partner, but the thought partner with them. Whereas before, there's a phrase that I, there's just, it's it's like nails on a chalkboard.

For me. It's oh, the HR policy. There are no HR policies. It's a policy for the company. It should, we, HR sometimes is viewed as the disciplinarian. Oh, go to go see hr. That's not the way I view hr. I think we're more the guidance counselor as opposed to the principle, so I, we're there to help guide things along, make sure that there's process is in place.

Making sure that they're working, but really we're the ones enabling. We should never be the ones that are the disciplinarians or the ones that are actually taking the actions. And that's, that was a huge, another huge transformational thought for me. Whereas before, it's like I had to be in every conversation.

the right conversations are [: 00:17:00

Alexa Beavers: I really love that for a very personal reason. My child Andrew, when he was like six, he was like, I don't know. You do all day. But then he learned a little bit and he's basically, you're a guidance counselor for businesses. And I was like, yeah.

Eric Shangle: Can I say one more thing on that also? I find there's also, in HR you'll find there's the therapist, HR people, and I think that is, I also don't think that's our job to be the therapist. We're there to work and guide and find solutions and solve problems. We're not there to just listen indefinitely.

And I think that's. That's another thing that you know, I've learned along the way is you can't just spend hours upon hours listening. You have to start working towards finding some solution and recognize maybe we're not the ones to be able to find that solution and find the resources for that employee or that manager.

again it's understanding the [: 00:18:00

Alexa Beavers: I love it. I don't believe that. Everyone understands what being a therapist means. So tell me, if you were to say, okay, this is to me what HR person as therapist looks like that, what does that look like? As opposed to, all right, we're the the counselor that empowers, I don't know, tell me what the distinctions are.

Eric Shangle: I think from a guide, when I say guidance counselor for example, it's working towards a solution I. And there has to be a time bound on that, that can't be indefinite. Whereas when you think about therapy, a lot of times it spans out over years and you're allowing the person to work through their problems and it's really all about them.

a therapist, I would listen [: 00:19:00

As a counselor, we're really trying to be a partner to help find a solution as quickly and as easily as possible because there are time impacts. We can't let issues go on indefinitely. We need to find some sort of resolution and and that's work. That's the difference between those two.

Alexa Beavers: That really brings me back to something you said earlier. Hr, we don't have tons of HR team members because we are a support function. At a cost center, absolutely not a revenue center. But what I just heard in that was, here's how HR can actually add value. So talk to me a little bit about that.

What are some of the ways that through your transformation from, let's say believing you had to do it all to doing it different and more effectively and through others, what are some of the ways you add value today and how is that how does that fill your bucket?

ally empowering people. When [: 00:20:00

Sometimes it's very indirect, sometimes it's more direct when you're the single point of failure and you have to do, be involved in anything that creates linear processes where you can't have things happening in parallel. So every time something happens. If there's three things that need to get done they're done sequentially, one after the other, which takes time.

Whereas, if things are done in parallel where you have managers working on, being able to handle employee conversations and work with their teams, that can be done in parallel, which is faster. But I would say that specifically from an HR perspective, we obviously need to make sure things are compliant, but outside of that, it's like, how are we making the company better?

ate to revenue. So sometimes [: 00:21:00

Sometimes it's in ways of. Hey, we have an underperforming employee. How do we find the best way to either rehabilitate the employee and get them on the right path or find another solution that is best for the company and for the employee? But there's a time constraint in all of that. And the longer, an underperforming employee goes on in that role, it's a detriment to the employee.

'cause they're not feeling successful. It's a detriment to the team because they may not be pulling their own weight. It's a detriment to the company because we're not optimizing for the work output. So it's really important to find those solutions early and often to help optimize that from a revenue perspective.

Alexa Beavers: So what you're doing is really accelerating towards outcomes for the business, you do that through the managers by not just saying, do this my way, but I'm your partner. Let's talk about how we do this for the greater good.

s some tools, in, instead of [: 00:22:00

And same thing with the leaders. The more you work with the leadership team on that, it trickles down, and people want to emulate great leadership and great management. They take on those traits. So it really becomes something that is a another jargony term, but a force, multi force multiplier for the company in being able to accelerate.

The eight, if you wanna call it HR things, management, feedback, performance engagement. It really helps move those along a lot faster.

y to learn. So you're taking [: 00:23:00

Eric Shangle: Absolutely. Yeah.

Alexa Beavers: or empowering it. So I'm gonna ask you a couple, we have so many good lessons. I'm just like, this is delicious for me.

So thank you. If you are gonna boil your lesson, your le this down into two lessons from going from transactional to strategic from being the do it all person to let me collaborate, to help other people so we can be more effective together. What are the biggest lessons, the two biggest lessons you're taking away?

From those things,

Eric Shangle: Investing your managers.

Alexa Beavers: great.

Eric Shangle: The more you can invest in the managers allows them to be a part of the process. Be the eyes and ears and enact great employee engagement. So that's one. The second one is think yourself as a safety net. If something goes awry, know that we're there and make sure that the team knows you're there to support them.

feedback and being there to [: 00:24:00

Others, it's brand new for them. So be that safety net because we all ha, started off somewhere and being able to support the team collaboratively is just as important as setting up expectations.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, I'm hearing grow your team and have their back.

Eric Shangle: Absolutely. We talk about safety net a lot on our team where, I say, Hey, listen, I'm your safety net. Or we have, another leader, Hey, I'm your safety net. And the aspect that it's okay if things don't go perfect. Learn from this. I always say it. I. I, it is a, it is an old saying, but I'd rather have somebody begging for forgiveness than asking for per or begging for permission.

ssion sometimes specifically [: 00:25:00

Let's do it this way, and learn from that mistake. So allowing people to make mistakes and knowing when you can make mistakes is super important. Because we're not perfect. We're humans. We have, we have flaws. We're going to make mistakes. I will make mistakes continuously, but I wanna learn from those.

And allowing people to do that by having a safety net is super important. I.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, I was gonna ask you why having a safety net is important. You just went right there, so kudos to you. I'm wondering if there was anything that you personally had to let go of in this transition? Anything, any limiting beliefs, anything that you had to say goodbye to so that you could step into really being a great strategic business partner.

t, for me at least, having a [: 00:26:00

And not to say I had a huge ego, but really making sure that I understood why was I, why did I choose this profession? And is this the right profession for me? That was one. The other thing is I don't have to be perfect. I think that is something that so many people struggle with is that they feel they have to get it right every time or have a hundred percent every time.

And that's not the case. And I said this before, but knowing what you need to have done perfect is much more important than having everything done perfectly.

Alexa Beavers: Those sound like good lessons for somebody. Just start. But out. I wanna see if you have any other things that if you are gonna, talk to someone that is about 15 years earlier than you and I are in our careers, what's the best advice you could give them based on the fact that you've been down this road, you've learned a couple things along the way.

ent of fear, especially when [: 00:27:00

Understand that, try something. If it doesn't work, make sure that you have a way to understand and learn from that. Don't be afraid to try something and fail and, but learn from that. You have to make sure you're learning. And I think the second thing is just a part of that is never stop learning.

There's always another way to do things. There's always a another way to implement a process or program. But if you think you know it all, that's when you really realize you don't know. I never stop learning.

Alexa Beavers: Brilliant. So I think that these are really powerful lessons to share and sometimes hearing them from somebody that's been there done that can accelerate folks down the path. I know people have gained a lot of insight from you today, Eric, and I'd love for you to share. I. Where can they find you if they wanna learn more?

Eric Shangle: I'm on [: 00:28:00

So I'm always willing to answer questions and give back, and that's probably the best place to find me. Other than that, I love to travel, so you never know what city I'm gonna pop up in.

Alexa Beavers: Oh good. Tell me what's one more time, what's important to you about giving back? 'cause I had a ding in my background.

Eric Shangle: I. I didn't understand how many people helped me out in so many ways throughout my career, and I think that's for everyone. But recognizing that you can't do anything on your own. And I, and it's it takes a team, but to me it's important to help others grow and learn. And I and hard stop on that.

ed company and especially on [: 00:29:00

If I can develop someone or our team can develop someone and they move on to a new role at another company where there wasn't the role here, that's the biggest compliment ever. And I think to me, that's the biggest thanks is seeing people progress in their career. But the more you can give back to managers, employees, people on our team, it makes a better work experience.

And I. I'm proud of our company. I'm proud of the companies I've worked at. I think we've made a positive impact on our employees' lives. It pains me to hear stories about people being at companies where they're, they feel that they're not valued, that there's no opportunity for growth. Nobody's taken an interest in their career, and I can't imagine what it's like to feel that, and I don't want our employees to feel that.

And so that's why it's important to give back. It's important to make sure people feel valued, seen and heard.

people are gonna be knocking [: 00:30:00

Eric Shangle: Absolutely.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah. Eric, thank you so much. I really have enjoyed our conversation

Eric Shangle: Thank you.

Alexa Beavers: Yeah, you are just so much fun to chat with and I just love the idea of coming out of, serving our country in the Navy, which is a powerful and very important thing going into the, and hospitality industry and being a really great go-to guy. That was awesome and that was important at the time and you grew and evolved from there.

You grew and evolved to show people what it was like to have a true partner. Not just be the one that does it all. And that served you and it served them, and it served the companies that you worked for through the years. Incredibly. So thanks for sharing your journey with us, and I look forward to seeing what unfolds from here, because you have already helped people with your wisdom.